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Author Topic: Affirmative Action is for people not smart enough to get in without it  (Read 20903 times)

iwantin

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Re: Affirmative Action is for people not smart enough to get in without it
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2005, 03:32:26 PM »
I have to agree.  It's NOT fair for URM to get an extra "boost" in the admissions process.  I am a URM.  I did receive this "boost," not soley based on race, but as a result of AA.

However, it is NOT fair for people who come from families with "old money" and can afford the best educations/prep courses to get the advantage over me.  I couldn't afford to take the LSAT; I had to get a fee waiver.  I received fee waivers for ALL of my applications. 

Let's get SOMETHING straight.  AA is NOT soley based on race; it IS based on other circumstances, like socioeconomic status.  My understanding is that a white male living in poverty would benefit from AA just as much as a black woman from a middle class family. 

Think about it...would your experiences as a non-URM be different from others (URM or not) if you lived in poverty?  That's diversity...that's why we need AA.  (Just like one's experiences as a URM are different from the majority.)
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Dano

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Re: Affirmative Action is for people not smart enough to get in without it
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2005, 10:29:40 PM »
Let's get SOMETHING straight.  AA is NOT soley based on race; it IS based on other circumstances, like socioeconomic status.  My understanding is that a white male living in poverty would benefit from AA just as much as a black woman from a middle class family. 

I have not seen evidence of this on LSN.  Someone admitted with numbers WAY out of the normal range is almost always hispanic or black.

iwantin

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Re: Affirmative Action is for people not smart enough to get in without it
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2005, 04:44:09 PM »
Oh, I'm sorry.  I wonder how many white people are living in poverty and trying to attend college or are FIRST GENERATION college students?  I think that's the better question to ask.  (That might help to explain why those numbers aren't out there at this point in time.)

I can count on one hand how many people that I know personally who fit the above criteria, and they did NOT have the average test scores/GPAs and received a significant amount of financial aid.
"You have brains in your head.
You have feet in your shoes.
You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
You're on your own, and you know what you know.
And you are the one who'll decide where you'll go.
Oh the places you'll go."

zenbiddie

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Re: Affirmative Action is for people not smart enough to get in without it
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2005, 04:50:36 PM »
socioeconomic factors are def valid.

Dano

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Re: Affirmative Action is for people not smart enough to get in without it
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2005, 12:45:12 AM »
Let's get SOMETHING straight.  AA is NOT soley based on race; it IS based on other circumstances, like socioeconomic status.  My understanding is that a white male living in poverty would benefit from AA just as much as a black woman from a middle class family. 

I have not seen evidence of this on LSN.  Someone admitted with numbers WAY out of the normal range is almost always hispanic or black.

This point would be valid if we could assume LSN to be an accurate demographic representation of the entire law school applicant pool.

So you would assume that lower socioeconomic white candidates are less represented on LSN?  I doubt it.  Refer to http://www.aahperd.org/iejhe/2004/ragon1/Internet%20Use%20Among%20College%20Students%20brAre%20There%20Differences%20By%20Race-ethnicity.htm

where it states the following:

Including households of all income levels, blacks and Hispanics are less than half as likely to use the Internet as whites.

Ninja

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Re: Affirmative Action is for people not smart enough to get in without it
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2005, 01:02:13 AM »
Oh, I'm sorry.  I wonder how many white people are living in poverty and trying to attend college or are FIRST GENERATION college students?  I think that's the better question to ask.  (That might help to explain why those numbers aren't out there at this point in time.)

I can count on one hand how many people that I know personally who fit the above criteria, and they did NOT have the average test scores/GPAs and received a significant amount of financial aid.

Actually there are a lot more white people living under the poverty line than minorities.  I forget what the exact number is, but if you look at the census data, you will find that there are more than twice as many whites living under the poverty line than minorities.

hilljack

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Re: Affirmative Action is for people not smart enough to get in without it
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2005, 01:06:18 AM »
Oh, I'm sorry.  I wonder how many white people are living in poverty and trying to attend college or are FIRST GENERATION college students?  I think that's the better question to ask.  (That might help to explain why those numbers aren't out there at this point in time.)

I can count on one hand how many people that I know personally who fit the above criteria, and they did NOT have the average test scores/GPAs and received a significant amount of financial aid.

Actually there are a lot more white people living under the poverty line than minorities.  I forget what the exact number is, but if you look at the census data, you will find that there are more than twice as many whites living under the poverty line than minorities.

If I am not mistaken, and I am unwilling to actually look up the numbers, there are more whites living under the poverty line than there are blacks period, or at least close.  But lets remember that the poverty line is not the 'poor line.'

sweatsandtees

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Re: Affirmative Action is for people not smart enough to get in without it
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2005, 01:17:46 AM »
Well I must say Xony it seems like the only people that seem to benefit from AA in your eyes are black people. Calm down. Not all black people get in because of AA. Alot of white people do to. And not all Black parents are so poor that they have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet. I'm assuming you're not Black, so please if you don't know, keep your comments to yourself.

Also are we forgetting that many of these law schools reserve the right to choose students that they feel will help diversify their class? And the last time I checked, diversity was not restricted to race. They choose based on diversity in majors, work/life experiences, personal situations and many more factors. The LSAT is hardly an indicator of someone's success in Law School. Look how many people score in the 170's and can bare make a 2.5 let alone a 3.0. You can LEARN how to take the LSAT. That's why not all 180 scorers get into the best schools.

The problem all you AA haters have is that you/your friend/ cousin/mom/sister/etc. didn't get into a law school because you feel like some dumb URM kid took your spot with their low test scores and pathetic GPAs. But you were NEVER guaranteed admission to ANY school and each school has a 25% percentile rank to prove that scores and GPAs are not the sole factors in determining how well a student will do or fit into a law school.

 So if you feel you were so wronged because you had the perfect score and GPA and you got into all the Honor societies you could and joined all the clubs you could fit into your schedule and you still don't know whay you didn't get in, don't blame it on some URM student. Look back at your personal statement, your consistency and participation in extracurricular activities, your work experience, your reccommendation, and the fact that a sh#tload of people with the exact same credentials will be sending in the same application. Now ask yourself why any law school would want to produce a class full of clones.


hilljack

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Re: Affirmative Action is for people not smart enough to get in without it
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2005, 01:31:31 AM »
The problem all you AA haters have is that you/your friend/ cousin/mom/sister/etc. didn't get into a law school because you feel like some dumb URM kid took your spot with their low test scores and pathetic GPAs. But you were NEVER guaranteed admission to ANY school and each school has a 25% percentile rank to prove that scores and GPAs are not the sole factors in determining how well a student will do or fit into a law school.

You lose credibility when you attack the person and not the position they take.

Quote
So if you feel you were so wronged because you had the perfect score and GPA and you got into all the Honor societies you could and joined all the clubs you could fit into your schedule and you still don't know whay you didn't get in, don't blame it on some URM student. Look back at your personal statement, your consistency and participation in extracurricular activities, your work experience, your reccommendation, and the fact that a sh#tload of people with the exact same credentials will be sending in the same application. Now ask yourself why any law school would want to produce a class full of clones.
Quote

I don't feel that using merit alone produces clones.  For example, I will get into a top law school on merit (I am a white man from a barely upper-middle class family) But I am a southerner and a conservative.  I know that this combination is unheard of, I will let it sink in for a second.  Anyway, there are not many people like me in top law schools, I gaurentee that, but that is not why I will get in, for me its numbers, and if it were numbers across the board, we would have a more efficient outcome.

Dano

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Re: Affirmative Action is for people not smart enough to get in without it
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2005, 01:43:40 AM »
Well I must say Xony it seems like the only people that seem to benefit from AA in your eyes are black people. Calm down. Not all black people get in because of AA. Alot of white people do to. And not all Black parents are so poor that they have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet. I'm assuming you're not Black, so please if you don't know, keep your comments to yourself.

Do you have any statistics to prove that many white people get in with AA? 

Why do you make statements about whites when you dismiss Xony's statements about blacks?  Shouldn't you apply your own standard to yourself as well?

Also are we forgetting that many of these law schools reserve the right to choose students that they feel will help diversify their class? And the last time I checked, diversity was not restricted to race. They choose based on diversity in majors, work/life experiences, personal situations and many more factors. The LSAT is hardly an indicator of someone's success in Law School. Look how many people score in the 170's and can bare make a 2.5 let alone a 3.0. You can LEARN how to take the LSAT. That's why not all 180 scorers get into the best schools.

The problem all you AA haters have is that you/your friend/ cousin/mom/sister/etc. didn't get into a law school because you feel like some dumb URM kid took your spot with their low test scores and pathetic GPAs. But you were NEVER guaranteed admission to ANY school and each school has a 25% percentile rank to prove that scores and GPAs are not the sole factors in determining how well a student will do or fit into a law school.

Law schools MAY look for diversity other than race.  However, the spreads from the median seem much higher for URM's (according to LSN data).  Are there any other sources of information you are aware of?

Many whites don't like AA for the same reasons that blacks did not like segregation.  They are both forms of discrimination.

So if you feel you were so wronged because you had the perfect score and GPA and you got into all the Honor societies you could and joined all the clubs you could fit into your schedule and you still don't know whay you didn't get in, don't blame it on some URM student. Look back at your personal statement, your consistency and participation in extracurricular activities, your work experience, your reccommendation, and the fact that a sh#tload of people with the exact same credentials will be sending in the same application. Now ask yourself why any law school would want to produce a class full of clones.

Are you insinuating that all white people are clones coming from the same backgrounds?  Have you ever met or talked to a white person outside of the internet?