Affirmative Action is for people not smart enough to get in without it

[legallady]

Nevermind. I like AA now. I'll just slack off on my gpa and mark the "gay" box on the lsac so I can get into a top law school.

Oh, man! You sure outed me!! I totally spent every night in college drinking and I slept through ALLLL of my classes (and all of my exams!) to graduate in the top 10% of my class. Phi Beta Kappa inducted me because of an error in their files!! All those awards I got? I don't know where they came from!! And the applications for the fellowships I was awarded must have filled THEMSELVES out. You're right, I haven't done a damn thing in my life, but (how lucky is this!?) 50+% of the country thinks I'm less than human, so Harvard Law, here I come!!!!!!

[Xony]

Your wrong, family connections are for people not smart enough to get in, like Mr. Bush. Affirmative Action is to help groups that don't get a fair shake, have schools with no books, are disadvantaged and marginalized by the power structure. I am not saying the recipients are always the ones that need it most, or that it isn't a flawed system, but clearly, it is not just about intelligence. Intelligence doesn't help everyone overcome institutionalized obstacles. It serves to increase representation of underrepresented groups.

Ok fine, so if the underpriviledged get an easier time getting into undergrad, it should be fair game after that!  There is no reason for the AA to continue all through life.  AA in special High Schools, AA in College, then AA in law school, then AA in the job field?

[risingMC]

Ok fine, so if the underpriviledged get an easier time getting into undergrad, it should be fair game after that!  There is no reason for the AA to continue all through life.  AA in special High Schools, AA in College, then AA in law school, then AA in the job field?

Assuming that AA was created and currently exists soley as a remedy of past inequalities or disadvantages, it would make sense that the "boost" one would get from AA would decrease from high school to college to grad school. However, that's a very big assumption, and completely disregards the simple value of racial diversity. The above assumption doesn't allow for one of the goals of AA to be an increase in the representation of racial/ethnic minorities within certain fields.

PS: This was argued much more eloquently in my initial post, which somehow got deleted. So it might not make sense.

PSS: From one girl to another, Xony, you are really, really pretty.

[Xony]

why don't we see AA in the rap or hip hop music business?  why dont' we have AA in the NBA or football?  Those fields seem pretty dominated by african american people.  shouldn't we use the same arguement you have below to improve the diversity in these fields as well?

Or should it be best man gets picked for the job regardless of his race?

[yrbadluck]

why don't we see AA in the rap or hip hop music business?  why dont' we have AA in the NBA or football?  Those fields seem pretty dominated by african american people.  shouldn't we use the same arguement you have below to improve the diversity in these fields as well?

Or should it be best man gets picked for the job regardless of his race?

i hope your kidding

[risingMC]

why don't we see AA in the rap or hip hop music business?  why dont' we have AA in the NBA or football?  Those fields seem pretty dominated by african american people.  shouldn't we use the same arguement you have below to improve the diversity in these fields as well?

Seriously, what would happen if there was? Then white people and other non-URMs would have another field open to them ... and what? How would society benefit?

AA in the professional field is much, much more different than in the field of sports or music. The impact that the additional of even one black lawyer has on society is so much greater, and many more times greater still is the effect that this one person is going to have on the Black community. For example, take Condi Rice. And imagine belonging to an ethnic group that has never, ever seen themselves represented in such a high level of politics. Now you have someone to look up to, to serve as an inspiration to your friends, family, and community.

[yrbadluck]

why don't we see AA in the rap or hip hop music business?  why dont' we have AA in the NBA or football?  Those fields seem pretty dominated by african american people.  shouldn't we use the same arguement you have below to improve the diversity in these fields as well?

Or should it be best man gets picked for the job regardless of his race?

AND... why do you single out african american people which is the focus of the typically neo-con argument.  many other groups of marginalized folk benefit and i dont see you honing in on them.  not to mention the group that has benefitted the most from affirmative action is actually white women. 
ps.  what happened to your cute puppy picture?

[bradzwest]

I still think that AA is only effective/appropriate in the earlier tiers of education.  Give children opportunities/health care/good educations...when they are young if you want to truly address inequities.  Who needs more resource an at risk child or a grad student?  A minority in a position to apply to grad school is the exception, they'll find their way regardless of any preferential treatment.  If our goal is too address the problem, give the benefits where they can make a difference.  AA in higher education cheapens the achievements of people of color.  Whether it is valid or not URMs are assumed in many higher education arenas and professions to have had a "leg up."  Does that really help?  Regardless of feelings or politics, as long as AA rewards a minority of the minority....it doesn't work.  Give the advantages to children/family foundations instead of patting ourselves on the back or complaining when a few people receive a perceived benefit that at best maintains the status quo.

[I hear America singing]

I can't imagine being in the cultural or racial minority for an extended period of time.  That would be hard enough.  Adding to that the fact that the racial majority once enslaved your people (or had them placed in prison camps, or kept them from voting) and you have a situation where success is not impossible, but all too often improbable.  Even though I grew up white and poor, I still realized that I had more advantages than the black and poor students who sat next to me.  In our society, white skin color is an asset.  It pushes us ahead every minute of our lives, even if we don't notice it.  Five centuries of cultural brainwashing has assured it.

This is why AA exists.  I don't presume to think one can calculate the detriment that racism causes, but I don't think that AA comes anywhere close to bridging the gap.  URM status still does not come close to the advantages I have just for being white.  That said, I think more should be done with AA, especially at the lower levels, when it could do the most good.

As a white person, AA doesn't bother me because it's an external factor I can't control.  My job (and every other applicant, regardless of URM status) is to present the best possible case for why we should be admitted.  If we are successful, and prepared well in the past, we will be rewarded with a spot.  But complaining about AA won't fix your problems- I suggest you take it to the legislative level if you're really intent on changing it.

[DJ-C]

AA is absurd, and detrimental to minorities.  Holding different standards for different people is racism.  The only moral way to approach admissions is to hold everyone to the same objective standards.  If you aren't qualified to get into a particular law school, why not just attend a lesser school like everyone else in the same situation?  You are more likely to be successful if you attend a school better suited to your academic credentials.  For a good scholarly read on this subject, check out No Excuses: Closing the Racial Gap in Learning by Abigail Thernstrom & Stephan Thernstrom.  Another great read on the subject is The Quest for Cosmic Justice, by Dr. Thomas Sowell.