are there any URMs that think AA is TOO helpful in admissions process?

[ryanjm]

Two quick random things: If you're quoting someone, remember to press quote again so that it stops the quote and we can see your response. Also, dbgirl, there's a huge gap at the bottom of your posts for some reason that takes up a buttload of space.

On topic:

I don't claim to be an expert on anyone's culture. However, I DO know what it takes to do well in school and on the LSAT. It's studying, reading, and preparing for the test. I'm asking how racial inequalities that existed 40+ years ago affects 22-25 yr old applicants today. If you've made it to college, you obviously have some motivation to better yourself, and from there it's just a matter of studying and doing well on the LSAT. A very narrow topic.
All of these other factors about what it's like to be black, etc... are all peripheral issues that really don't have a huge impact on your grades and LSAT unless you make them an issue. No white person is holding you back from reading books on your free time to increase reading comp and develop a better vocab. No one is stopping you from studying so that you can get a 3.5+. No one is stopping you from picking up some powerscore books and studying for a few months for the LSAT. Being poor is a huge hindrance. Being black is not.

[onlychild]

I don't claim to be an expert on anyone's culture. However, I DO know what it takes to do well in school and on the LSAT. It's studying, reading, and preparing for the test. I'm asking how racial inequalities that existed 40+ years ago affects 22-25 yr old applicants today. If you've made it to college, you obviously have some motivation to better yourself, and from there it's just a matter of studying and doing well on the LSAT. A very narrow topic.
All of these other factors about what it's like to be black, etc... are all peripheral issues that really don't have a huge impact on your grades and LSAT unless you make them an issue. No white person is holding you back from reading books on your free time to increase reading comp and develop a better vocab. No one is stopping you from studying so that you can get a 3.5+. No one is stopping you from picking up some powerscore books and studying for a few months for the LSAT. Being poor is a huge hindrance. Being black is not.

You're ridiculous.  Seeing as though you have the key to doing well on the LSAT, please help me to understand why I didn't do better based on the factors below.

Race: Black
GRE Verbal %ile - 97
GMAT Verbal %ile - 91
LSAT score - 160 (82%ile)
Test prep - Powerscore

Please tell me why I didn't do better.  If the LSAT just tests your reading comp skills and vocabulary, then how do you explain my performance on the other standardized tests?  I hope I'm not genetically inferior!!  I may never recover from that revelation.

[TBoneUCLA]

I don't claim to be an expert on anyone's culture. However, I DO know what it takes to do well in school and on the LSAT. It's studying, reading, and preparing for the test. I'm asking how racial inequalities that existed 40+ years ago affects 22-25 yr old applicants today. If you've made it to college, you obviously have some motivation to better yourself, and from there it's just a matter of studying and doing well on the LSAT. A very narrow topic.
All of these other factors about what it's like to be black, etc... are all peripheral issues that really don't have a huge impact on your grades and LSAT unless you make them an issue. No white person is holding you back from reading books on your free time to increase reading comp and develop a better vocab. No one is stopping you from studying so that you can get a 3.5+. No one is stopping you from picking up some powerscore books and studying for a few months for the LSAT. Being poor is a huge hindrance. Being black is not.

You're ridiculous.  Seeing as though you have the key to doing well on the LSAT, please help me to understand why I didn't do better based on the factors below.

Race: Black
GRE Verbal %ile - 97
GMAT Verbal %ile - 91
LSAT score - 160 (82%ile)
Test prep - Powerscore

Please tell me why I didn't do better.  If the LSAT just tests your reading comp skills and vocabulary, then how do you explain my performance on the other standardized tests?  I hope I'm not genetically inferior!!  I may never recover from that revelation.

i have not taken the gmat or the gre, but are those verbal sections very similar to the lsat? i know that this is a race issue we are ACTUALLY talking about here. i do see that, but CAN one compare those scores to each other fairly? i just didnt know....

[angmill08]

 T Bone,

Back to the tone of your original post, I don't believe that GLB people are underrepresented in law school over all. Or in the professional world. This doesn't mean that homophobia doesn't exist, or that many GLBs don't have to make accomodations to the heterosexist professional world. They do, as do women make accomodations to the sexist professional world. (And men, too!) It is not fair, and shouldn't be necessary. But this unpleasant reality does not seem to be leading to a systematic underrepresentation of women or GLBs in these situations. There is, however, a systematic underrepresentation of some racial groups (or ethnic subgroups of racial groups) in law school and legal professions. AA is designed to address that. It does not solve the problem of racism, or classism, or anti-immigrant prejudice. But it is designed to treat a symptom of these things. As many people have noted, it is a blunt tool that has many flaws. But in my opinion, it is doing some good in correcting a systematic, historical underrepresentation.

[TBoneUCLA]

T Bone,

Back to the tone of your original post, I don't believe that GLB people are underrepresented in law school over all. Or in the professional world. This doesn't mean that homophobia doesn't exist, or that many GLBs don't have to make accomodations to the heterosexist professional world. They do, as do women make accomodations to the sexist professional world. (And men, too!) It is not fair, and shouldn't be necessary. But this unpleasant reality does not seem to be leading to a systematic underrepresentation of women or GLBs in these situations. There is, however, a systematic underrepresentation of some racial groups (or ethnic subgroups of racial groups) in law school and legal professions. AA is designed to address that. It does not solve the problem of racism, or classism, or anti-immigrant prejudice. But it is designed to treat a symptom of these things. As many people have noted, it is a blunt tool that has many flaws. But in my opinion, it is doing some good in correcting a systematic, historical underrepresentation.

i do hear you. you make very logical points, and i understand them.

i would be interested to see how many schools, though, are underrepresented with the LGB community. probably alot, especially in small/conservative communities...

also, as i am sure you noticed, many folks on this very thread that would fall into the catergory of URM say that AA is there because of all the past animosity and misdeeds done to those groups in the past. clearly i disagree that that is the prompting of AA.

i feel (as you do more or less) it is more to get butts in seats, so that the law school can be more diverse and the law community can be more diverse.

[WoeIsMe]

the topic asks if any URM think AA is overly helpful.  you might getter more response if it was broadened to 'any minorities' think AA is overly helpful.  Since there are many minorities who do not get AA status.. Asians and as you indicated GLB people.

you bring up an interesting point though in terms of segmenting.  AA segments groups into racial subgroups and those within the subgroup in many cases is gauged against others only within said subgroup.  So when you compare individuals in one subgroup against another (ie: black with hispanics), or against other minorities who don't get AA status, such as asians, or even against the larger population as a whole certain groups get benefits much greater than others.  The benefit is based on representation within said group and not disadvantage.  So I think this latter point may be the basis of your question.

[ryanjm]

onlychild:  Your response makes no sense. Where did I say that the LSAT is only reading comp and vocab? A large part of the LSAT is logical reasoning. Judging by your response and the stupid question you asked, I can see where that area was probably lacking for you.

[TBoneUCLA]

the topic asks if any URM think AA is overly helpful.  you might getter more response if it was broadened to 'any minorities' think AA is overly helpful.  Since there are many minorities who do not get AA status.. Asians and as you indicated GLB people.

you bring up an interesting point though in terms of segmenting.  AA segments groups into racial subgroups and those within the subgroup in many cases is gauged against others only within said subgroup.  So when you compare individuals in one subgroup against another (ie: black with hispanics), or against other minorities who don't get AA status, such as asians, or even against the larger population as a whole certain groups get benefits much greater than others.  The benefit is based on representation within said group and not disadvantage.  So I think this latter point may be the basis of your question.

um yeah, i actually wanted to ask this question to URMs in particular, because they are the ones specifically benefitting from AA. i mean, i would assume most folks that dont benefit from it would easily say "yeah, it is too helpful to other people. let ME in, female dog!"

i kinda wanted to see if there were ANY URMs out there that were like "we dont need the help. we can do it on our own. this AA stuff is bull poo"  so far no takers in that respect, but the thread has been plenty active and chalk full of emotion and debate, so i am happy

[TBoneUCLA]

As soon as all the rich kids stop benefitting from the contacts and help they get from THEIR fathers, I'll stop taking advantage of the almost non-existent help I might get because MY father is a URM. 

amen! my father is a drama teacher at a community college and my mom is a secretary! oh, wait though, i am still white.
so i guess i dont get help from anyone     


not all white kids are rich w/ connected lawyer dads. in fact most aren't. just sayin'

[WoeIsMe]

agree.. pretty lame post.. 2 wrongs make a right.