Law School Discussion

Queen's reputation

Re: Queen's reputation
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2005, 09:47:01 PM »
This thread is coming pretty close.

Time to hijack--where have you decided to go Cheeks?

Cheeks

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Re: Queen's reputation
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2005, 10:11:45 PM »
probably columbia, but i'm still thinking about UofT.  You?  oz?

Re: Queen's reputation
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2005, 11:22:48 PM »
Very nice.  Did you get the chance to see Columbia?

Oz is almost certain at this point.  It's the most logical choice for me, although I really wish I could somehow combine UWO and Oz together  ;)

Re: Queen's reputation
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2005, 10:29:47 AM »
Cheeks, how can you say Queens is middle of the road as far as Canadian universities go?!?!?  According to the Maclean's reputational ranking (from surveys of CEOs, recruiters at big corporations and university oficials) Queen's is 3rd overall (ahead of Mcgill), and 1st in overall quality.  Western ranks 9th overall out of 47 schools, and is definitely above average.  Queens' entering class has the best highschool grades in the country, including 11.6% with 95% or higher in highschool (compared to 6.6 and 5 at UofT and Mcgill, respectively), and 100% with highschool averages over 75%.

Cheeks

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Re: Queen's reputation
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2005, 11:06:45 AM »
First off, @#!* macleans.  Secondly, @#!* entering averages.  How come when someone argues over two schools, its always ONLY talk about the entering averages.  There is a whole lot more to a school.  If you want to argue about this, stop citing these TTT sources.

Maybe there are 47 schools in Canada, but it is absolutely ridiculous to compare Queens to University of Alberta, for instance.  Why?  Fine, Queens is a better school - we all agree on this, but will Queens place better in Edmonton compared with UofA.  NO.  If two people for a job in Edmonton, both equally qualified, except one with to UofA, the other to Queens, who gets the job?  The UofA kid.  You have to compare schools within their market.

And fine, Queens might be "ranked" #3 in Canada ... but regionally, are they better than UofT, Mcgill, Montreal, Western for economics?  No.  Or how about life sciences, cause they don't make top 5 there either.  With that said, they might be first in another category...

Point being, Queens, Western, Mac, Waterloo, yada yada yada, can all be placed in the same category when it comes to quality of school.  I'm not including School X from the NWT here, because it makes no f-ing sense to compare the two.

Finally, this is how I compare universities:  Job placement, and Academic Placement - because this is why everyone goes to school.  They want a job or they want to continue there education.  There are a number of schools in Canada that absolutely destroy queens and western in these categories.  Nothing else matters.  You might argue that Queens has a better engineering department than say mcgill, but if mcgill has a higher placement rate - then no one cares how great queens is. 

I'm not arguing about this anymore.  This is my last post on this topic.

EDIT:  I thought about this a little more...

@#!*, Are you HONESTLY trying to convince me that Queens and Western are the top schools in Canada?  I mean, @#!*.  This is ridiculous.  I'm pretty sure that its widely understood that Toronto absolutely puts these schools to shame.  Sorry, I could careless that Macleans has Queen's as #1 in "overall quality".  What a joke!   

Re: Queen's reputation
« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2005, 12:30:34 PM »
Cheeks,

Even if you consider Macleans and entering averages to be third tier toilet sources, at least Nick cited some semblance of hard evidence to back up his view.  All I've heard from you is your personal claim that U of T is the best school in Canada and that everyone knows this and if we don't then we should go get a clue.  I should give you more credit, you also used hypos in your last post.  So you know for sure the UofA will get the job?  How about the UofA kid against the UofT kid ceteris paribus? 

And yes, Macleans and entering averages should not be the ONLY critera for judging schools but they are HARDLY third tier toilet sources.  You can disagree with the particular weightings but I find that most of the factors in the rankings are valid and reasonable.  Also, Nick cited specifically the reputional rankings based only on surveys of CEO's, recruiters etc.  Considering that these are the people who make the decisions that directly affect your holy grail of criteria, placement rates, why do you consider this to be a third tier toilet source?

Entering averages are commonly cited as a good (not the only) indication of a school's quality because it reflects the quality of the student body, the selectivity and attractiveness of the school.  I would also argue that Recruiters and Admissions look very closely at entering averages which will again have a direct effect on your criteria of placement rates.  Do you really belive entering averages to be a third tier toilet source?  Why do Law schools and Law firms care so much about the entering GPA and LSAT then?

You state that placement rate is the #1 critera in your rankings.  Does UofT have the highest job and school placement rates in the Country?

Quote
This is ridiculous.  I'm pretty sure that its widely understood that Toronto absolutely puts these schools to shame
 
By widely understood, do you mean the student population of U of T?  Just curious.

Re: Queen's reputation
« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2005, 12:47:10 PM »
I realize Mcgill and U of T are, and always have been, the universities with the most name recognition.  Most of the political and business leaders of the country went to one of these 2 schools, and the connections are unequalled.  The Southern Ontario market has numerous universities of good quality, so I agree that you might be better off going to alberta for a job in edmonton then going to queen's for a job in toronto.  I wasn't trying to argue that Queen's and Western were the top 2 schools in the country, only that they seem to have a reputation of being in the top 5 or 10 nationally (even if that doesn't mean better oppurtunities).

p.s. Was your mention of Queen's being behind U of T, Montreal, Western, Mcgill for economics about their undergraduate program?  I read in some report by UCalgary that Queens MA in Econ is considered atleast top4 (along with UofT, Mac, and UBC) and well ahead of Montreal, Western, and Mcgill .   

Cheeks

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Re: Queen's reputation
« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2005, 12:49:28 PM »
I'm not debating this anymore.  To each his own...

Re: Queen's reputation
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2005, 02:16:38 PM »
p.s. Was your mention of Queen's being behind U of T, Montreal, Western, Mcgill for economics about their undergraduate program?  I read in some report by UCalgary that Queens MA in Econ is considered atleast top4 (along with UofT, Mac, and UBC) and well ahead of Montreal, Western, and Mcgill .   

Don't listen to Cheeks.  It's obvious that he deliberately chooses to ignore published data - but would rather come up with his own unsubstantiated claims.

I will agree that Macleans rankings are largely meaningless, but concerning Queen's, there are other studies that have come to the same conclusion - i.e. the University Report Card, prepared by the Globe & Mail - where Queen's ranked #1 in Canada for "Quality of Education".




Cheeks

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Re: Queen's reputation
« Reply #49 on: March 21, 2005, 03:18:19 PM »
damn it, why do i keep posting here...

For a tangible claim, in a study that I'm working on with the help of several schools, I had to bump Queen's out of the "top tier" schools, based on it's Macleans Doctoral/Professional Ranking, and other published data which assesses the school's quality.  hth.