Law School Discussion

The Realist Perspective of International Relations

strouse

The Realist Perspective of International Relations
« on: February 26, 2005, 06:36:22 PM »
I know this forum is mostly a liberal place.  I would like to address the role of military force in International relations.  Do liberals believe that there will come a time when power is no longer determined by the capability, size, and strength of your military force?  How do liberals suppose the world will exist in a state of Anarchy without war while lacking a global hegemon such as the United States to enforce norms?  Do liberals really believe that an International Organization such as the UN does not seek the same rational interests for itself that other states do?

just curious......

VinnyMyCousin

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Re: The Realist Perspective of International Relations
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2005, 07:12:58 PM »
Phanatic, I take it you are aware of Hunter Thompson's last book. FYI it doesn't jibe well with your avatar...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684873192/qid=1109470028/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-1963926-3523343?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

That being said, great point re: the UN.  Why don't people see that an organization that is mostly comprised of non-democratic member states cannot by definition qualify as a democratic entity as a whole? 

BigBadBo

Re: The Realist Perspective of International Relations
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2005, 07:15:28 PM »
Though Bush may not be everything you think he is...

I'm still with you Phanatic.  The realist tradition will always be primary.


Though interestingly democrats in the United States have always been quasi-realist.

To really be successful they must toughen up though - a poontang like kerry will never be a great president.


Re: The Realist Perspective of International Relations
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2005, 07:17:34 PM »
I know this forum is mostly a liberal place.  I would like to address the role of military force in International relations.  Do liberals believe that there will come a time when power is no longer determined by the capability, size, and strength of your military force?  How do liberals suppose the world will exist in a state of Anarchy without war while lacking a global hegemon such as the United States to enforce norms?  Do liberals really believe that an International Organization such as the UN does not seek the same rational interests for itself that other states do?

just curious......


Every president in American history has been "realist" IMO. And no, Bush isn't a "good" man.

BigBadBo

Re: The Realist Perspective of International Relations
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2005, 07:18:32 PM »
IMO?


by the way - my post was written while drunk

strouse

Re: The Realist Perspective of International Relations
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2005, 07:19:12 PM »
Phanatic, I take it you are aware of Hunter Thompson's last book. FYI...
 

LOL, I know he was very very anti bush.  In fact, I believe he said that he would rather vote for Nixon than Bush.  I don't mind other people's views differing with mine.  I can still appreciate talent. Hunter Thompson was a talented writer, so I felt I would give him some props for a while.



giffy

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Re: The Realist Perspective of International Relations
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2005, 07:32:59 PM »
Liberals or progressives take the same approach to IR that was taken to government in the 1700's. Prior to that the notion that one could have a government that was limited, democratic, and accountable was seen as crazy. It was widely assumed that the only way to maintain order was for a strong sovereign to use force to enforce law. Now, many thought that the sovereign could and perhaps should be "moral" but it is not a requirement. Might made right.

Now there are many successful governments based on popular sovereignty. Leaders are elected and rights are respected. Force is still sometimes necessary, but it is bounded, lawful and democratically granted.

What many are saying is that the same principles could work in IR. A global governmental entity such as the UN could function the same way as the federal government did and odes in the US. While more sovereignty would be vested in the individual countries then is currently vested in to the states the general principles would be the same. Certain things such as resolving disputes, maintaining international order, and protecting rights would be granted to the UN like body.  Just as force is still used in the US to maintain order, force would still be needed under a world government. However as in the US it would be by a dictator, benevolent or otherwise, but by a restrained and accountable popular government.

I am not saying this would work, I have my doubts that it could work at this point in history, but I do think it is an admirable and possible goal for the future.

strouse

Re: The Realist Perspective of International Relations
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2005, 07:41:34 PM »
A global governmental entity such as the UN could function the same way as the federal government did and odes in the US.

That's a pipedream. Imagine the factions!  Not only that, but there is NO WAY you would get even a continent under the same banner, let alone the world.  Who would lead this World Organization?  A white guy, black guy, indian, russian, sumerian, persian, canadian, german, italian, pol, chinese, japanese, korean, egyptian, et al?
This is some star wars *&^%, dude.  I am not trying to be a smartass, but can I try what you're smoking? 

BigBadBo

Re: The Realist Perspective of International Relations
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2005, 07:52:13 PM »
in my drunken state...


as i see it - states, factions, tribes, etc..  have all formed due to outside threats

the problem with the existence of world government is that until an alien invasion there will never be an outside threat....  no reason to become unified as one...

until then.. and i will never say that can't happen... i just dont' see it ever functioning even in an efficient form


the closest we will get is Hedley Bull's The Anarchical Society - we abide by common rules and norms generally (though war is not excluded)

strouse

Re: The Realist Perspective of International Relations
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2005, 07:57:08 PM »
in my drunken state...


as i see it - states, factions, tribes, etc..  have all formed due to outside threats

the problem with the existence of world government is that until an alien invasion there will never be an outside threat....  no reason to become unified as one...

until then.. and i will never say that can't happen... i just dont' see it ever functioning even in an efficient form


the closest we will get is Hedley Bull's The Anarchical Society - we abide by common rules and norms generally (though war is not excluded)

*hiccup* Yeah *hiccup* I agree. *hiccup*  Bring on those f-ing aliens!!!!! *goes to get another beer*