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Author Topic: Kinda wish these law school numbers sites didn't exist  (Read 17375 times)

HippieLawChick

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Re: Kinda wish these law school numbers sites didn't exist
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2005, 02:00:56 AM »
Yes, it's hard to see when someone with the same credentials gets into a better school than you do possibly because their race was a "thumb on the scale"

However, I have a different perspective on things. I am in charge of hiring for a small firm that has a clientele that is 50% minority.  We have a heck of a time finding minority lawyers to hire.  I have been working like crazy to make sure that we do, but haven't succeeded yet.  For our clients, it helps when our staff looks like they do.  It makes the clients more comfortable.  The clients are the reason that we have a firm to begin with.

When I first started working at our firm 6 years ago, the owner would just try and talk lawyers he knew (all white males) about coming to work for him.  It was bad practice and bad for the firm.  It has been a battle to get him to realize that we need to have a staff that is as diverse as our client pool is.  I have finally gotten him to agree, but only about 5% of the resumes I got were from African-Americans. 

We need more black lawyers! 


dbgirl

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Re: Kinda wish these law school numbers sites didn't exist
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2005, 03:47:56 AM »
Just FYI, I am a journalist, which I consider a professional-type position. And I am aware of NO AA policies w/in print journalism, it's all about who the boss folks "connect" with and it is very much a white boys club. In five years in journalism I have met only ONE black print journalist and only ONE Hispanic print journalist that works in the county where I work. (It is better on TV, I realize.) I live in California. We're pretty ethnically diverse here.

For argument's sake we could say that all other things being equal, there is no reason a minority should get any "bonus points" in legal hiring or opportunities.

I would disagree. I cover courts. The criminal defendants are predominately Mexican and Black. The lawyers? Almost exclusively white. I think that's a problem. If I were a defendant, frankly I would feel more comfortable with a defense attorney I could identify with.
I think it helps the prosecution as well to have minority attorneys. We all know many defendants claim racial discrimination. I think a defendant would have less credibility with that claim if the prosecutor were also a minority.

When you have somebody dying because they are poor and black or poor and white or because of whatever they are ... that erases everything that's great about this country.

-TMcGraw

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towanda03

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Re: Kinda wish these law school numbers sites didn't exist
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2005, 12:20:45 PM »
When I read the posts by people that are disappointed to be white because it somehow hurts law school chances, I wonder how many would really want to BE a URM.

You hit the nail on the head.  When the suit against Mich was being decided, there was an extraordinarily eloquent editorial written by a student there (which, I cannot find right now, but will post if I manage to unearth it).  The thrust of the argument can be summed up in one of the concluding lines, which surmised that white students that complain about the loss "seats" to minorities with "lesser" credentials assume that erasing the check mark next to "white" and re-checking a minority label changes nothing else about their lives, and by extension, their applications:  the opportunity for earning those credentials and the way those credentials are read.

I think a bit more transperancy about AA policies would help ease a lot of people's sense of injustice.  When analysts dissected the Michigan "point system," for instance, it was revealed that the setup still favored whites, since under their guidelines minority applicants couldn't be awarded extra points for some socio-economic disadvantages (went to a bad high school, etc).  Non-minority applicants that qualified for various combinations of these points frequently wound up with more of an advantage than minority applicants.  At any rate, bottom line, the equation is far more complicated than most people think it is. 

ryanjm

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Re: Kinda wish these law school numbers sites didn't exist
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2005, 06:15:16 PM »
I hate to sound racist here, but the fact that there aren't enough minority lawyers to represent minority criminals is not going to change any time soon. Do you see asian people with the same problems? No.

An explanation of why this lack of Minority lawyers exists might be found in differences of intelligence levels by race:
www.answers.com/topic/race-and-intelligence

Argue the reasons why all you want, the fact remains that some races are, on average, smarter than others.

We need more white athletes in football, baseball, and basketball, track and field, etc... but let's face it, some races are better physically, and some are better mentally. Again, on average.

AA is stupid. It assumes that because you're a minority applicant, you've faced a much harder life than EVERY non-minority applicant. Or worse yet, it says that we need more people with your skin color, even though you're going to be a shittier lawyer than almost every other person with higher intelligence and better demonstrated achievement that we admit. Admission should be based on your accomplishments and demonstrated abilities. Nothing else.

underwhelm

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Re: Kinda wish these law school numbers sites didn't exist
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2005, 10:32:06 PM »
Argue the reasons why all you want, the fact remains that some races are, on average, smarter than others.

Knowing people as intelligent as you could become lawyers was what inspired me to take up the profession. How tough could it be?

ryanjm

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Re: Kinda wish these law school numbers sites didn't exist
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2005, 11:09:32 AM »
Read the article first. Your response was very...underwhelming.

LaneSwerver

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Re: Kinda wish these law school numbers sites didn't exist
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2005, 11:47:21 AM »
When I got my score, 166, I danced around the living room in my underwear.  However, after spending time on this site and LSN, I feel like a moron.

I have photos of this for sale.

billyflynn

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Re: Kinda wish these law school numbers sites didn't exist
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2005, 02:18:30 PM »
I just looked up lawschoolnumbers.org, and while I was surfing around I clicked on someone's name and viewed their profile because they're numbers looked almost identical to mine.  166/3.4 (my GPA is slightly higher).  Both of us went to Top 15 undergraduate schools.  Both have done service work and worked as a paralegal at prestigious firms after graduation.

One difference, she's a black female, I'm a white male.  Now I don't presume to know about her essay and recs, but I think mine were pretty solid.

She's in all over the place, Columbia, Harvard, Northwestern, the works.  No rejections, not wiat lists.  I, on the other hand, am getting waitlisted or rejected by these schools.

I've always considered myself a pretty liberal guy and have supported AA, but I must say that being on this side of the equation sucks.

Feelin gloomy.  Should I wait and see if Bush makes AA illegal?  I've always despised American conservativism but at this rate of anger I'll be a Republican by 30.

Don't worry, you'll work for a law firm, probably make partner, then you'll be able to silently discriminate against all the URMs you want! 
I knew this would happen:
Kent or Loyola LA...well I have til' June 11th, as I'll be heading off to the Netherlands for work.

dbgirl

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Re: Kinda wish these law school numbers sites didn't exist
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2005, 08:40:10 PM »
It's amazing how all of these threads turn into opportunities for people to spew racist crap.

Ryanjim, I didn't say they were minority criminals, I said minority defendants. And yes, frankly, I have seen that problem with Asian defendants as well. We have quite a few Asian defendants out here in our courts too. And I don't see a lot of Asian attorneys in criminal law.

Anyway, some people obviously get their kicks out of insulting URMs. I don't think that was what the original poster had in mind.


When you have somebody dying because they are poor and black or poor and white or because of whatever they are ... that erases everything that's great about this country.

-TMcGraw

http://www.wm3.org/splash.php

underwhelm

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Re: Kinda wish these law school numbers sites didn't exist
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2005, 01:05:42 AM »
Read the article first. Your response was very...underwhelming.

I don't need to because I already know you're playing fast and loose with the meaning of the word "smart" to serve your agenda. I don't subscribe to your usage, so HAND.