Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
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Poll

The Infamous "Most Difficult Law School Class" Poll:

I'm a law student and K is the most difficult class.
 17 (8.8%)
I'm a law student and Torts is the most difficult class.
 4 (2.1%)
I'm a law student and Crim Law is the most difficult class.
 2 (1%)
I'm a law student and Civ Pro is the most difficult class.
 23 (11.9%)
I'm a law student and Con Law is the most difficult class.
 12 (6.2%)
I'm a law student and Property is the most difficult class.
 16 (8.2%)
I'm a law student and LRW is the most difficult class.
 7 (3.6%)
I'm not a law student but I think Contracts would be the most difficult class.
 13 (6.7%)
I'm not a law student but I think Torts would be the most difficult class.
 13 (6.7%)
I'm not a law student but I think Criminal Law would be the most difficult class.
 3 (1.5%)
I'm not a law student but I think Civil Procedure would be the most difficult class.
 25 (12.9%)
I'm not a law student but I think Constitutional Law would be the most difficult class.
 14 (7.2%)
I'm not a law student but I think Property would be the most difficult class.
 18 (9.3%)
I'm not a law student but I think Legal Research & Writing would be the most difficult class.
 27 (13.9%)

Total Members Voted: 146

Author Topic: 1L's & Current Black Law Students  (Read 279807 times)

Lawprofessor

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #540 on: April 20, 2005, 04:56:41 PM »
this is an interesting discussion and i agree that we need to continue to reach back and help others, thats how i was raised. i wanted to respond to sands perception of black people "caught in the numbers game" becoming apart of the "me, myself and i" mentality. i know i'm sensitive about this kind of stuff, but i disagree with that assessment of black folks who go to those "ranked" schools. one thing i will say for my education and my experience with black folks, the "me myself and i" mentality is everywhere, and i experienced it more from students i met from hbcu's and other "so-called" lower ranked schools than at my undergrad and some others who were similarly ranked. i don't know why i have those perceptions, but it comes from my personal experience. i have met dr. akbar, and i have heard him speak more than once. he has always said, go to the centers of knowledge here and take what they have, go to the centers of knowledge in the african world and learn that, then you will be empowered to help your people. i am concerned about rankings, because i recognize that it makes a difference to how white folks perceive me and listen to me. i've been in many situations where white men/women have ignored what i said until i said i graduated from ... then the whole tone of the conversation changed. my hope is to use that for my community. and i know many more people who went to school with me who feel the same way. of course i have good friends who think like regal too, and its all good, do what you do. i just know that everything i have/will attain is built on the backs of the ancestors, so if one individual doesn't necessarily "want to improve themselves" (although i don't agree with that terminology), thats fine, i did my part, and i'll just reach out to the next person. sorry i wrote so much, i just think that there are plenty of people who play the #s game in order to help folks in the future as well. obama is only one very prominent example.

Don't apologize for the length, unless your talking nonsense  ;). But I feel where you're coming from, some black people have the me, myself, and I attitude no matter where they go to school. I see *some* (only a few) of it at my LS and I'm like, wtf?? What's that all about? But you best believe, when BLSA is having a party, or having outlining sessions and other similar things, they they first ones in line..... ::) I'm sure other people have seen this on a smaller scale in UG. Hell, look at Michael Jackson, he tried to literally become white, but as soon as all this legal trouble started it's because he's a black man, he's being persecuted like Nelson Mandela (still can't believe he said that  :() It's a mess girl. And of course, I say go to the best school for YOU. For the most part, I don't believe that anyone is discounting the seriousness of the system re: "prestigiousness" as it is today, my only issue comes in when black students don't want to give back, don't they realize that they are able to attend the "prestigious" institutions that they are b/c black people before them did just that! To me, it's shitting on that legacy........

Ladyday, you have said it all.  I dont have anything else to say.  Now watch, I am going to go and say something anyway.  That is me, you will get used to it.  I am not saying that you should go to a lesser school or a HBCU.  I am saying go to the school that you want to go to for whatever reasons you want.  Whether it is that is the only school you got in to, it is the highest ranked school you got in to, it is on the west/east coast.  What I am saying is that everyone makes their own decisions for them what school they want to go to and there is nothing wrong with that.  My problem is that you have people who are selfish, keep their outlines to themselves, study techniques kept to themselves, keeping things that are helpful to themselves, but the first time anyone else has anything they are the first in line to try to get it.  The problem with the "I" mentality is that while it might help you or at least you think it is helping you, it is really not.  Because think about it like this....if we never progress as a people, ultimately, you are the one that is hurt.  I just think we have to think in a broader way with more vision toward the future.  If you are only always thinking about yourself, how do you get the strength to ask for help when you are never willing to give help.  
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Lawprofessor

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #541 on: April 20, 2005, 04:58:41 PM »
Faith, your post is very much on point. Although a degree is just a piece of paper, it does open a lot of doors in our society and get folks to listen to what you have to say. My question is how can you help someone when your own business is not on point? In my eyes, you might end up dragging the person down instead of lifting them you know?

But if you take that mentality, when do you ever try to help because you are going to always be trying to get your business on point.
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Ladyday

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #542 on: April 20, 2005, 05:09:08 PM »
Ladyday, you have said it all.  I dont have anything else to say.  Now watch, I am going to go and say something anyway.  That is me, you will get used to it.  I am not saying that you should go to a lesser school or a HBCU.  I am saying go to the school that you want to go to for whatever reasons you want.  Whether it is that is the only school you got in to, it is the highest ranked school you got in to, it is on the west/east coast.  What I am saying is that everyone makes their own decisions for them what school they want to go to and there is nothing wrong with that.  My problem is that you have people who are selfish, keep their outlines to themselves, study techniques kept to themselves, keeping things that are helpful to themselves, but the first time anyone else has anything they are the first in line to try to get it.  The problem with the "I" mentality is that while it might help you or at least you think it is helping you, it is really not.  Because think about it like this....if we never progress as a people, ultimately, you are the one that is hurt.  I just think we have to think in a broader way with more vision toward the future.  If you are only always thinking about yourself, how do you get the strength to ask for help when you are never willing to give help. 

Exactly. Re: the bold, it's called having the "audacity" to do it.

Faith, your post is very much on point. Although a degree is just a piece of paper, it does open a lot of doors in our society and get folks to listen to what you have to say. My question is how can you help someone when your own business is not on point? In my eyes, you might end up dragging the person down instead of lifting them you know?

But if you take that mentality, when do you ever try to help because you are going to always be trying to get your business on point.

Sometimes people use it as an excuse not to help out. Or their not confident enough in themselves. Or a lot of other things........ I've got to do this, I've got to do that, I'm working on this for myself, I, I, I. We wouldn't be able to attend LS today if our ancestors had defeatest attitudes and didn't see helping uplift our community as important. I just don't get it  ???

blk_reign

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #543 on: April 20, 2005, 05:13:27 PM »
hey..i hope that when you guys get your JDs and start making moves financially... you consider working together and starting some sort of movement.. we have our own little community on this board.. and there are many opportunities that are being afforded to us that our grandparents didn't even dream of... let's pull together and make things happen..
We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

HBCU.EDU

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #544 on: April 20, 2005, 05:16:02 PM »
I'm all about the "I" because "I" own you.  ::) 

Ahhhh, a comedian.  Well we will see how funny you are after your first semester of law school!!!   ;D


(Gulp) (In a soft voice) I aint skerd!  >:(

Muse

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #545 on: April 20, 2005, 05:17:24 PM »
 The examples you guys are using are extreme.

Quote
My problem is that you have people who are selfish, keep their outlines to themselves, study techniques kept to themselves, keeping things that are helpful to themselves, but the first time anyone else has anything they are the first in line to try to get it.  

There is a difference between working smart and just being a straight jackass. I share my notes and give study techniques all the time but I don't call that giving back to the community per se nor do I expect anything in return. I'll use the Lsats for example. I scored in the 99th percentile. While I was studying I didn't really help anyone because I was struggling to master the exam myself. Hell if I offered any kind of assistance during that time, I might have caused someone to blow the test themselves.  However after my results came in and everything was all said and done I offered my notes and even tutored people free of charge I knew were struggle. Let me make clear that those individuals were making efforts to help themselves. They didn't expect me to do all the work or take the freaking test for them. Some people would see that as me giving back, while I view it as being a decent human being. There is right and there is wrong. Hiding notes or tearing pages out of book is beyond ridiculous. My accomplishments didnít come from stepping on others or expecting a hand out.

Lets keep it real for a moment; Martin Luther King and Malcolm X give back. The little stuff we do is remedial compared to the strides those men made in society.  Nevertheless I still believe that you canít help anyone unless you help yourself first. Iíll use an example a pretty intelligent person recently said to me  ďHow are you going to be helping someone when you are eating government cheese yourself?Ē No pun intended but you see my point? Clean your own house first...
Honesty has a beautiful and refreshing simplicity about it. No ulterior motives. No hidden meanings. An absence of hypocrisy, duplicity, political games, and verbal superficiality. As honesty and real integrity characterize our lives, there will be no need to manipulate others.--Chuck Swindoll

faith2005

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #546 on: April 20, 2005, 05:23:23 PM »
Faith, your post is very much on point. Although a degree is just a piece of paper, it does open a lot of doors in our society and get folks to listen to what you have to say. My question is how can you help someone when your own business is not on point? In my eyes, you might end up dragging the person down instead of lifting them you know?

i am not sure i understand exactly what you mean, but i do think that apart of having your business on point is giving back. you look at someone like kenneth chenault, or some of the foundations out there and their method was to become apart of the corporate world, and then fund the institutions that they agree with, even bill cosby's hbcu/temple fund was something similar to that. their gifts are different than mine, so i don't see myself doing the corporate thing as a career, but they have made philanthropy a priority in their personal lives for a reason i think. my personal opinion though is that all it takes is helping one person to change the world. just think, what if malcolm x's mentor in prison hadn't reached out to him. or his brother hadn't written to him. those men weren't necessarily "on point" in terms of their business, they were strugglin too, but them taking those few seconds to reach back changed the world. i believe that when you help other people, you can't help but be lifted. ok, i'll stop being so damn cheesy :D

Lawprofessor

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #547 on: April 20, 2005, 05:35:55 PM »
The examples you guys are using are extreme.

Quote
My problem is that you have people who are selfish, keep their outlines to themselves, study techniques kept to themselves, keeping things that are helpful to themselves, but the first time anyone else has anything they are the first in line to try to get it.  

There is a difference between working smart and just being a straight jackass. I share my notes and give study techniques all the time but I don't call that giving back to the community per se nor do I expect anything in return. I'll use the Lsats for example. I scored in the 99th percentile. While I was studying I didn't really help anyone because I was struggling to master the exam myself. Hell if I offered any kind of assistance during that time, I might have caused someone to blow the test themselves.  However after my results came in and everything was all said and done I offered my notes and even tutored people free of charge I knew were struggle. Let me make clear that those individuals were making efforts to help themselves. They didn't expect me to do all the work or take the freaking test for them. Some people would see that as me giving back, while I view it as being a decent human being. There is right and there is wrong. Hiding notes or tearing pages out of book is beyond ridiculous. My accomplishments didnít come from stepping on others or expecting a hand out.

Lets keep it real for a moment; Martin Luther King and Malcolm X give back. The little stuff we do is remedial compared to the strides those men made in society.  Nevertheless I still believe that you canít help anyone unless you help yourself first. Iíll use an example a pretty intelligent person recently said to me  ďHow are you going to be helping someone when you are eating government cheese yourself?Ē No pun intended but you see my point? Clean your own house first...


Hey Muse, I get you now, and I see what you were saying.  I say what you did is giving back.  I applaud anyone who has the fortitude to turn around and assist others behind them to achieve. And let me tell you, there are many people out there who have outlines and dont offer them, and have information and dont tell it.  They view that as looking out for themselves because if they are they only person of color with the information, they figure they will get the highest score.  I understand if you are studying for the LSAT you cant really help others because you dont know if what you are doing is right.  However, there are always ways of assisting people, be it giving encouragement to people, or giving them a push when they look like they are about to quit.  It does not have to be teaching them how to do something after you finished doing it.
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Lawprofessor

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #548 on: April 20, 2005, 05:45:32 PM »
I'm all about the "I" because "I" own you.  ::) 

Ahhhh, a comedian.  Well we will see how funny you are after your first semester of law school!!!   ;D


(Gulp) (In a soft voice) I aint skerd!  >:(

you should be, SU aint no joke....I am going to call my professor friends there to get you.
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Muse

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #549 on: April 20, 2005, 05:49:31 PM »

Those foundations you speak of are getting some really nice tax incentives as well.... :P People don't donate millions of dollars without benefiting from it in the long run.

But anyway I understand what you are saying. My point is that you can't help someone else until you are on point yourself

All of you people who want to do big law, who exactly are you helping besides some rich white folks and yourselves? ;D

Greed makes the world go around, and none of you are above that.

Why go to law school in the first place  if you want to save the world and give back? I've only seen two or three people who actually said they want to do public interest/civil rights law on here.  ::) What about the rest of you?  Whatís your excuse?

Deep down we are all self driven/motivated beings. If going to law school didn't somehow benefit you in the long run, most of you would be doing something else.


Lawprofessor,

My view of looking out for myself is to make sure I'm not a burden to my family or society. Looking out for me doesn't include stepping on someone in the process or cheating my way to the top. I'm all for healthy competition because that drives human beings. Besides I want to beat another individual fair and square so they know  that I'm the sh*t LOL...

Based on the examples given in this thread, I "give" back all the time; perhaps more so than most people. However, I don't wear it as a badge or anything. If mentoring, community service, or various organizations I run interfered with my ultimate goal, I wouldn't do it.
Honesty has a beautiful and refreshing simplicity about it. No ulterior motives. No hidden meanings. An absence of hypocrisy, duplicity, political games, and verbal superficiality. As honesty and real integrity characterize our lives, there will be no need to manipulate others.--Chuck Swindoll