Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Poll

The Infamous "Most Difficult Law School Class" Poll:

I'm a law student and K is the most difficult class.
 17 (8.8%)
I'm a law student and Torts is the most difficult class.
 4 (2.1%)
I'm a law student and Crim Law is the most difficult class.
 2 (1%)
I'm a law student and Civ Pro is the most difficult class.
 23 (11.9%)
I'm a law student and Con Law is the most difficult class.
 12 (6.2%)
I'm a law student and Property is the most difficult class.
 16 (8.2%)
I'm a law student and LRW is the most difficult class.
 7 (3.6%)
I'm not a law student but I think Contracts would be the most difficult class.
 13 (6.7%)
I'm not a law student but I think Torts would be the most difficult class.
 13 (6.7%)
I'm not a law student but I think Criminal Law would be the most difficult class.
 3 (1.5%)
I'm not a law student but I think Civil Procedure would be the most difficult class.
 25 (12.9%)
I'm not a law student but I think Constitutional Law would be the most difficult class.
 14 (7.2%)
I'm not a law student but I think Property would be the most difficult class.
 18 (9.3%)
I'm not a law student but I think Legal Research & Writing would be the most difficult class.
 27 (13.9%)

Total Members Voted: 146

Author Topic: 1L's & Current Black Law Students  (Read 272592 times)

Lawprofessor

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3376
  • Pony Up!
    • View Profile
Re: 1L's
« Reply #520 on: April 20, 2005, 12:05:31 PM »
I'm bored and it's early so I'll entertain the rankings debate for a second...

I have to say that I stand beside the National Association for Law School Placement (NALP) with their stance on law school rankings/ratings...


NALP does not rank law schools and discourages the use of rating systems or rank-ordered lists in evaluating law schools and their graduates for employment. Law schools are defined by many different, yet often interrelated, characteristics whose significance and relationship at a particular school may vary from year to year. No rigid ranking of law schools can quantify the subjective value of the education available at each school.


Now according to US News & World report.. rankings aren't solely determined by the Big Law partners (I was asked this question last night and couldn't provide a definitive answer before researching it)

For the five graduate program areas with the largest enrollments–business, education, engineering, law, and medicine–we use a combination of statistical data and expert assessment data. The statistical data we collect include both input and output measures. Input measures reflect the quality of students, faculty, and other resources brought to the education process. Output measures signal an institution's success in managing that process so graduates achieve desired results, such as passing the bar exam or getting a high-paying job offer.

The expert assessment data for these areas come from surveys of knowledgeable individuals in academia and practitioners in each profession. Survey respondents are asked to rate the programs with which they are familiar on a scale of "marginal" (1) to "outstanding" (5).

Statistical and assessment data are standardized about their means, and standardized scores are weighted, totaled, and rescaled so that the top score is 100 and other scores are expressed as whole percentages of the top score. Schools are then ranked by their rescaled score.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/about/faq_meth_brief.php#six


taken from prelaw handbook..

CRITERIA USED TO DETERMINE
THE RANKING OF THE
TOP PRESTIGIOUS LAW SCHOOLS


-Peer Assessment                   10%
-Lawyer and Judges Assessment      10%
-Assessment of University          20%
-UGPA Twenty-fifth Percentile       5%
-UGPA Seventy-fifth Percentile     10%
-LSAT Twenty-fifth Percentile    8.33%
-LSAT Seventy-fifth Percentile  16.67%
-EQR Faculty Quality Rankings      20%

so.. i guess the only question for me Sands  is.. where does it say that US' methodology grants 40% of a law school's rank to subjectivity from lawyers whom it selects to ask? was this assessment limited to the realm of IP law?

At the end of the day I think that the whole ratings game is what causes the most stress amongst law school applicants.. Just embrace the experience.. and go to the law school that YOU want to go to.. factor in the variables that are important to you.. it's your decision and you're the one that has to live with the path that you've chosen..

i've elaborated more on my personal experience here. http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,25605.0.html


Blk_reign_esq I agree with you about making the decision on what school that you want to attend.  Ultimately, the person is going to dictate their own success both in law school and after.  Everyone needs to make the decision about what is in their own best interest.  Going to the highest ranked law school is not what is always in everyone's best interest.  I know a state circuit court in Maryland who got accepted to Harvard many years ago and turned them down to attend the U of Maryland.  Harvard threw a bucket of money at him and he still turned them down.  He made the decision that he did not want to move his family.  Rightly or wrongly for everyone else, it was the right decision for him.  And at the end, everyone has to make their own decisions because they have to live with the consequences.
Back in the saddle again.

blk_reign

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 7978
    • View Profile
Re: 1L's
« Reply #521 on: April 20, 2005, 12:11:41 PM »
thanks Law Professor :).. and welcome to the boards.. what law school did u attend if you don't mind me asking?


Look at Obama Baraka ..he got offered big law jobs left and right.. turned them down for a 15K position in Chicago after finishing @ Harvard.. look @ him now!


edit: see what typing too fast does  :D.. lol Barack Obama
We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

Lawprofessor

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3376
  • Pony Up!
    • View Profile
Re: 1L's
« Reply #522 on: April 20, 2005, 12:39:24 PM »
thanks Law Professor :).. and welcome to the boards.. what law school did u attend if you don't mind me asking?


Look at Obama Baraka ..he got offered big law jobs left and right.. turned them down for a 15K position in Chicago after finishing @ Harvard.. look @ him now!


Thank you.  Looks like lots of interesting discussions go on here.  I don't mind you asking and I attended the University of Florida.  You are right Obama could have accepted big law jobs but for his own reasons he determined that was not the path for him. 
Back in the saddle again.

Statistic

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 10080
  • I never had a chance
    • View Profile
Re: 1L's
« Reply #523 on: April 20, 2005, 01:19:40 PM »
thanks Law Professor :).. and welcome to the boards.. what law school did u attend if you don't mind me asking?


Look at Obama Baraka ..he got offered big law jobs left and right.. turned them down for a 15K position in Chicago after finishing @ Harvard.. look @ him now!


edit: see what typing too fast does  :D.. lol Barack Obama

I'm sure H was paying back his loans though.
Look to the left -- Look to the right

Lawprofessor

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3376
  • Pony Up!
    • View Profile
Re: 1L's
« Reply #524 on: April 20, 2005, 01:22:24 PM »


I'm sure H was paying back his loans though.

Maybe not, perhaps he deferred them. 
Back in the saddle again.

Burning Sands, Esq.

  • Global Moderator
  • LSD Obsessed
  • ****
  • Posts: 7072
  • Yes We Kan-sas!!!
    • View Profile
Re: 1L's
« Reply #525 on: April 20, 2005, 02:08:25 PM »
Obama is the man.  He is scheduled to come to Rutgers in the fall to speak.  I'm kinda hype off that.

As far as the rankings most of us are saying the same thing.  However, based on some of the comments of late that we've seen on this board, the sad truth is that after all the wisdom that has been dropped here by law students and lawyers alike, there are some cats on here that will get caught up in the hype, and we won't hear from them anymore, and I think that's a shame. 

The reason why I hate the ranking system is because it inevitably breads the "Me myself and I" mentality among us, as opposed to the bigger picture of the "WE" mentality.  That selfish attitude is ok for the mainstream b/c they are the MAINstream, they don't have to reach back for anybody.  We're not in the driver's seat like that.  The minute you start thinking like that is the minute that we all fail.  Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) we have a burden/duty to help our brothers and sisters who are also trying to make it.  Let that divisiveness go.

In the great words of School Daze:  WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP!
"A lawyer's either a social engineer or a parasite on society. A social engineer is a highly skilled...lawyer who understands the Constitution of the U.S. and knows how to explore its uses in the solving of problems of local communities and in bettering [our] conditions."
Charles H. Houston

Lawprofessor

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3376
  • Pony Up!
    • View Profile
Re: 1L's
« Reply #526 on: April 20, 2005, 02:14:19 PM »
Ahhh, but the problem is that too many of us dont feel the obligation to reach back and assist those coming behind us.  We live in the "I" world.  You know, what's good for me, is good for me.  I am not concerned about those around me and those that come after me.  My theory on that is, what is meant for me is meant for me, and it does not matter what you want to happen.  I can't be harmed by assisting you or someone else.  If I was meant to get the job at BigLaw, I will get it, and if I was not, I am not.  Remember, we are all going to take our own route to get to our ultimate destination and no one knows (no matter how much they think they know) what that route is going to be.  Hey, since we are quoting Spike......ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING!!!
Back in the saddle again.

Burning Sands, Esq.

  • Global Moderator
  • LSD Obsessed
  • ****
  • Posts: 7072
  • Yes We Kan-sas!!!
    • View Profile
Re: 1L's
« Reply #527 on: April 20, 2005, 02:49:42 PM »
Ahhh, but the problem is that too many of us dont feel the obligation to reach back and assist those coming behind us.  We live in the "I" world.  You know, what's good for me, is good for me.  I am not concerned about those around me and those that come after me.  My theory on that is, what is meant for me is meant for me, and it does not matter what you want to happen.  I can't be harmed by assisting you or someone else.  If I was meant to get the job at BigLaw, I will get it, and if I was not, I am not.  Remember, we are all going to take our own route to get to our ultimate destination and no one knows (no matter how much they think they know) what that route is going to be.  Hey, since we are quoting Spike......ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING!!!

I see that you're speaking both figuratively and personally, so are you condoning the "I" mentality or merely commenting on it here?
"A lawyer's either a social engineer or a parasite on society. A social engineer is a highly skilled...lawyer who understands the Constitution of the U.S. and knows how to explore its uses in the solving of problems of local communities and in bettering [our] conditions."
Charles H. Houston

Lawprofessor

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 3376
  • Pony Up!
    • View Profile
Re: 1L's
« Reply #528 on: April 20, 2005, 02:59:51 PM »
Ahhh, but the problem is that too many of us dont feel the obligation to reach back and assist those coming behind us.  We live in the "I" world.  You know, what's good for me, is good for me.  I am not concerned about those around me and those that come after me.  My theory on that is, what is meant for me is meant for me, and it does not matter what you want to happen.  I can't be harmed by assisting you or someone else.  If I was meant to get the job at BigLaw, I will get it, and if I was not, I am not.  Remember, we are all going to take our own route to get to our ultimate destination and no one knows (no matter how much they think they know) what that route is going to be.  Hey, since we are quoting Spike......ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING!!!

I see that you're speaking both figuratively and personally, so are you condoning the "I" mentality or merely commenting on it here?

I condemn the "I" mentality.  Imagine if all the brothers and sisters that came before us had the "I got mines" mentatlity.  Neither you nor I would be where we are today. 
Back in the saddle again.

blk_reign

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 7978
    • View Profile
Re: 1L's
« Reply #529 on: April 20, 2005, 03:05:27 PM »
speak on it
We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...