Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
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Poll

The Infamous "Most Difficult Law School Class" Poll:

I'm a law student and K is the most difficult class.
 17 (8.8%)
I'm a law student and Torts is the most difficult class.
 4 (2.1%)
I'm a law student and Crim Law is the most difficult class.
 2 (1%)
I'm a law student and Civ Pro is the most difficult class.
 23 (11.9%)
I'm a law student and Con Law is the most difficult class.
 12 (6.2%)
I'm a law student and Property is the most difficult class.
 16 (8.2%)
I'm a law student and LRW is the most difficult class.
 7 (3.6%)
I'm not a law student but I think Contracts would be the most difficult class.
 13 (6.7%)
I'm not a law student but I think Torts would be the most difficult class.
 13 (6.7%)
I'm not a law student but I think Criminal Law would be the most difficult class.
 3 (1.5%)
I'm not a law student but I think Civil Procedure would be the most difficult class.
 25 (12.9%)
I'm not a law student but I think Constitutional Law would be the most difficult class.
 14 (7.2%)
I'm not a law student but I think Property would be the most difficult class.
 18 (9.3%)
I'm not a law student but I think Legal Research & Writing would be the most difficult class.
 27 (13.9%)

Total Members Voted: 146

Author Topic: 1L's & Current Black Law Students  (Read 271911 times)

HBCU.EDU

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #510 on: April 19, 2005, 08:55:30 PM »
Sands-

based on writ of coram nobis, I retort your conclusion by using facts from the Mann Actevidence found by the a priori assumption and malice which is based on the definition of abandonment that creates the fact by the magistrate. in absentia judgements supports my foundation....oh..excuse my brother..hypotheses.

You see...my Bruh Thuh...the conspiracy, that's C O N - Spriacy, that continues to inflict the ramifications of the constituents here assembled thefefore further exacerbates the rhetorial enigma that holds true to the hypothesies...excuse me...hypocrasies of the inner sanctum of that magistrate's res judicata factor.  You see?

No my bru-THU. I do not follow your illiquid irrationality. If you can insert your frontal lobe into the warm cavity of the feverishly awaiting grantor-grantee index you will find the truth based on my to wit.

Muse

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #511 on: April 19, 2005, 08:58:34 PM »
COONS
Honesty has a beautiful and refreshing simplicity about it. No ulterior motives. No hidden meanings. An absence of hypocrisy, duplicity, political games, and verbal superficiality. As honesty and real integrity characterize our lives, there will be no need to manipulate others.--Chuck Swindoll

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #512 on: April 20, 2005, 01:42:44 AM »
Nupe that Avatar is hot, yo.
"A lawyer's either a social engineer or a parasite on society. A social engineer is a highly skilled...lawyer who understands the Constitution of the U.S. and knows how to explore its uses in the solving of problems of local communities and in bettering [our] conditions."
Charles H. Houston

Muse

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #513 on: April 20, 2005, 02:03:38 AM »
HBCU I OWN THAT AVATAR...you are using it without my permission nucka!  >:(
Honesty has a beautiful and refreshing simplicity about it. No ulterior motives. No hidden meanings. An absence of hypocrisy, duplicity, political games, and verbal superficiality. As honesty and real integrity characterize our lives, there will be no need to manipulate others.--Chuck Swindoll

blk_reign

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #514 on: April 20, 2005, 10:32:28 AM »
I'm bored and it's early so I'll entertain the rankings debate for a second...

I have to say that I stand beside the National Association for Law School Placement (NALP) with their stance on law school rankings/ratings...


NALP does not rank law schools and discourages the use of rating systems or rank-ordered lists in evaluating law schools and their graduates for employment. Law schools are defined by many different, yet often interrelated, characteristics whose significance and relationship at a particular school may vary from year to year. No rigid ranking of law schools can quantify the subjective value of the education available at each school.


Now according to US News & World report.. rankings aren't solely determined by the Big Law partners (I was asked this question last night and couldn't provide a definitive answer before researching it)

For the five graduate program areas with the largest enrollments–business, education, engineering, law, and medicine–we use a combination of statistical data and expert assessment data. The statistical data we collect include both input and output measures. Input measures reflect the quality of students, faculty, and other resources brought to the education process. Output measures signal an institution's success in managing that process so graduates achieve desired results, such as passing the bar exam or getting a high-paying job offer.

The expert assessment data for these areas come from surveys of knowledgeable individuals in academia and practitioners in each profession. Survey respondents are asked to rate the programs with which they are familiar on a scale of "marginal" (1) to "outstanding" (5).

Statistical and assessment data are standardized about their means, and standardized scores are weighted, totaled, and rescaled so that the top score is 100 and other scores are expressed as whole percentages of the top score. Schools are then ranked by their rescaled score.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/about/faq_meth_brief.php#six


taken from prelaw handbook..

CRITERIA USED TO DETERMINE
THE RANKING OF THE
TOP PRESTIGIOUS LAW SCHOOLS


-Peer Assessment                   10%
-Lawyer and Judges Assessment      10%
-Assessment of University          20%
-UGPA Twenty-fifth Percentile       5%
-UGPA Seventy-fifth Percentile     10%
-LSAT Twenty-fifth Percentile    8.33%
-LSAT Seventy-fifth Percentile  16.67%
-EQR Faculty Quality Rankings      20%

so.. i guess the only question for me Sands  is.. where does it say that US' methodology grants 40% of a law school's rank to subjectivity from lawyers whom it selects to ask? was this assessment limited to the realm of IP law?

At the end of the day I think that the whole ratings game is what causes the most stress amongst law school applicants.. Just embrace the experience.. and go to the law school that YOU want to go to.. factor in the variables that are important to you.. it's your decision and you're the one that has to live with the path that you've chosen..

i've elaborated more on my personal experience here. http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,25605.0.html
We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

blk_reign

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #515 on: April 20, 2005, 10:48:25 AM »
HBCU I OWN THAT AVATAR...you are using it without my permission nucka!  >:(

u own it? lol.. i remember seeing it somewhere else :P :D
We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #516 on: April 20, 2005, 10:55:44 AM »
WE are taking over the world at my school.  I just won the election last night for Treasurer of the SBA!!!!!  Oh they done messed up now!  Funding for all minority groups!!!  Plus we got a member of BLSA as the President of SBA, and a member of BLSA as the Parliamentarian of SBA.

Its the takeover!

Pre-Laws, when you guys get to your respective law schools in the fall, make sure you get involved in BLSA first and foremost, but don't forget to look into the other interest groups, especially your school's SBA (Student Bar Assoc) chapter, b/c it is the Head Student Gov. Org at your law school that funds all the other groups. 
"A lawyer's either a social engineer or a parasite on society. A social engineer is a highly skilled...lawyer who understands the Constitution of the U.S. and knows how to explore its uses in the solving of problems of local communities and in bettering [our] conditions."
Charles H. Houston

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #517 on: April 20, 2005, 11:18:31 AM »

so.. i guess the only question for me Sands  is.. where does it say that US' methodology grants 40% of a law school's rank to subjectivity from lawyers whom it selects to ask? was this assessment limited to the realm of IP law?



Limited to IP? Are you kidding me here?  Look here, Counsel:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/about/06law_meth_brief.php

Quality Assessment (weighted by .40)

    * Peer Assessment Score (.25)
      In the fall of 2004, law school deans, deans of academic affairs, the chair of faculty appointments, and the most recently tenured faculty members were asked to rate programs on a scale from "marginal" (1) to "outstanding" (5). Those individuals who did not know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know." A school's score is the average of all the respondents who rated it. Responses of "don't know" counted neither for nor against a school. About 70 percent of those surveyed responded.


    * Assessment Score by Lawyers/Judges (.15)
      In the fall of 2004, legal professionals, including the hiring partners of law firms, state attorneys general, and selected federal and state judges, were asked to rate programs on a scale from "marginal" (1) to "outstanding" (5). Those individuals who did not know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know." A school's score is the average of all the respondents who rated it. Responses of "don't know" counted neither for nor against a school. About 27 percent of those surveyed responded.


Now I implore you to note two specific points. 

#1.  Who was asked
#2.  Of those who were asked, how many responded

If you don't see the subjectivity here, then there is no hope.  If this was a scientific study, which it actually proclaims to be to some extent, I could exploit this methodology all day.  The first step in any scientific research is to have as LARGE as a pool of subjects as possible.  If you are trying to do a study on black folk, and you pool the black people in Montana as your study, and assign weight to it, you have a flawed study b/c your are attempting to use INDUCTIVE reasoning (For all you LSAT takers out there) to draw a conclusion on a larger class from a small sample.

Beyond that, the entire idea of an overall school ranking is absurd unless you ask somebody who has attended all 180 ABA schools.  That's ridiculous right?  So is an overall ranking system.  Its deceptive and misleading.  Believe it or not, there are pre-laws on this board who actually thought that students at "tier 1's" learn different material than the students at the lower tiers.  And its not their fault they think that, look at how much stock is placed in the rankings.  An entire board of # whores on here and XOXO devoted to worshipping the numbers.  For the record, all law students learn the SAME law classes folks.

Not that I mind talking sh!t on the USNews but why are black folk debating this again...?
"A lawyer's either a social engineer or a parasite on society. A social engineer is a highly skilled...lawyer who understands the Constitution of the U.S. and knows how to explore its uses in the solving of problems of local communities and in bettering [our] conditions."
Charles H. Houston

HBCU.EDU

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #518 on: April 20, 2005, 11:30:22 AM »
Well, it looks like you and black agree Nupe. Yall need to simmer down.

blk_reign

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Re: 1L's
« Reply #519 on: April 20, 2005, 11:44:58 AM »
oh i'm chillin lol... we definitely agree ..(we're saying the same thing in essence)

the point that i was making though is that the 40% assessment that Sands was speaking on earlier.. .wasn't limited to a review of Big Law partners..some people assumed that was what he meant..

in the earlier accounting too much attention was focused on that one aspect of the rankings (big law partners)

he further elaborated with it in the direct quotes that he provided from the US World website...just as i did in the table i provided and us  link..


We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...