To BigTex

[giffy]

Context is really everything. For instance I often make comments to my gay and black friends that would be construed as offensive in most contexts. However in our friendships it is not that way at all. Same with many of my female friends. It is more satirical and kidding around then anything serious.

Or perhaps his wife is not really all that superficial or concerned with her looks. I don't really now or care, but I think the fact that they seem to have a great relationship is testament to the fact that what ever they are doing it works.

[WoeIsMe]

i'll add a little salt to the wounds... family relationships are different than formal or social relationships where the mode of interation can be defined, agreed upon, and followed.  Even though this sounds like it should work for husband / wife on a superficial level, the relationship is much much deeper.

let's move the focus slightly...  let's take the parent / child relationship.  While some might think it's ok for a parent to joke with their children about being overweight, unattractive, or dimwitted, given the conditions that the parents communicate this is to be taken in jest, in my opinion this clearly is not acceptable, because despite the formal rhetoric of not to take it seriously, the child will internalize it as part of his/her identity.  while it might not have an immediate effect on the child, the potential for harm to show up in other mysterious ways is increased.. especially on self esteem. 

This is all part of one's perception of self which consists of not only of individual choice, but also contains a family and social identity.  A child of course is the obvious example because of his/her development... one might argue, 'Get over it! this is an adult wife', however i think it's equally valid to claim, just as many posters have, that husband/wife still grow and develop over time, and this maturation process at the family level still operates under similar mechanisms as a developing child.  (stage theorists arise!)

so from a contractual point of view, it is certainly ok to say the wife is fat/ugly... from a family / moral point of view, the question and outcome may be different.  as adults and especially males, im sure we'd like to think of the world as a series of contracts and hand-shakes, but in regards to family the perception of what the signficant others truly believe deep down inside is much more powerful... and yes choice of words can convey this.

anyway, my post is not directed against BigTex per so, but more to the general argument of family/husband/wife relationships. oh.. and I hate Oprah.

[giffy]

i'll add a little salt to the wounds... family relationships are different than formal or social relationships where the mode of interation can be defined, agreed upon, and followed.  Even though this sounds like it should work for husband / wife on a superficial level, the relationship is much much deeper.

let's move the focus slightly...  let's take the parent / child relationship.  While some might think it's ok for a parent to joke with their children about being overweight, unattractive, or dimwitted, given the conditions that the parents communicate this is to be taken in jest, in my opinion this clearly is not acceptable, because despite the formal rhetoric of not to take it seriously, the child will internalize it as part of his/her identity.  while it might not have an immediate effect on the child, the potential for harm to show up in other mysterious ways is increased.. especially on self esteem. 

This is all part of one's perception of self which consists of not only of individual choice, but also contains a family and social identity.  A child of course is the obvious example because of his/her development... one might argue, 'Get over it! this is an adult wife', however i think it's equally valid to claim, just as many posters have, that husband/wife still grow and develop over time, and this maturation process at the family level still operates under similar mechanisms as a developing child.  (stage theorists arise!)

so from a contractual point of view, it is certainly ok to say the wife is fat/ugly... from a family / moral point of view, the question and outcome may be different.  as adults and especially males, im sure we'd like to think of the world as a series of contracts and hand-shakes, but in regards to family the perception of what the signficant others truly believe deep down inside is much more powerful... and yes choice of words can convey this.

anyway, my post is not directed against BigTex per so, but more to the general argument of family/husband/wife relationships. oh.. and I hate Oprah.

The main differences between parent/child and partners, is that in the former there is both one-way power dynamics, and one member generally does not have the cognitive complexity or emotional maturity to handle teasing. Neither of these things should be present in a romantic relationship and if they are, then they probably have bigger problems.

Personally, I am teased often by my mom and was even more so by my dad before he passed away. In both cases it goes both ways. However there are some people for whom this would not be positive. I just don't think that you can make these sorts of generalizations. People are different and view these things differently. The question is not whether it is abstractly right or wrong, but if it is right or wrong for them. I take Tex on his word that they have a good relationship and that is good enough for me.

[WoeIsMe]

i always interpretted teasing as an insidious form of bullying

[BigTex]

i always interpretted teasing as an insidious form of bullying

Sometimes true. Sometimes not. At my grandmother's house, when I'm stuffing my face full of tamales at Christmas time, family often says to me: "ohhh - you're working on that belly i see!".

It's very endearing attention and makes me feel good.

[I hear America singing]

i always interpretted teasing as an insidious form of bullying

Sometimes true. Sometimes not. At my grandmother's house, when I'm stuffing my face full of tamales at Christmas time, family often says to me: "ohhh - you're working on that belly i see!".

It's very endearing attention and makes me feel good.

I think that's the problem.

The comment to his wife was harmless only because the schema in which it existed was so warped and twisted.

In a normal schema, calling a wife "fat" is rude, inconsiderate, and downright mean.  But in the schema he and his wife have created, it is normal.

That is a scary thought.

Here are things he could have said, meant the exact same thing, and things would be better.

1.  You'll always be beautiful to me.
2.  I like the shape of your body better than the sticks on MTV.
3.  I don't care if all your hair fell out and you lost your arms in a horrible farming accident- I'd love you anyway.

I think BigTex was saying all of those things and more when he said what he did to his wife, only he could have expressed himself better.  But she understood him, in her way, because they are probably both at the same level of psychological development.

[giffy]

The comment to his wife was harmless only because the schema in which it existed was so warped and twisted.

Ya, not being overly sensitive about physical appearance is twisted and wrong. I can't stand all those idiots who are self-confident in their appearance. 

[I hear America singing]

The comment to his wife was harmless only because the schema in which it existed was so warped and twisted.

Ya, not being overly sensitive about physical appearance is twisted and wrong. I can't stand all those idiots who are self-confident in their appearance. 

1.  Read the entire post.
2.  The word "fat" has negative connotations, regardless of the schema in which it exists.  If he were "teasing" he could have used a word like "fleshy" or "corpulent".

[__]

1.  Read the entire post.
2.  The word "fat" has negative connotations, regardless of the schema in which it exists.  If he were "teasing" he could have used a word like "fleshy" or "corpulent".

maybe he meant phat!
pretty hot and tempting.

[I hear America singing]

Okay, now that I think about it, "corpulent" probably wouldn't be the best word to use.

I still think he actually meant the three statements I posted above- he was either incapable or unwilling to say them at that point, so he said what he said.