Law School Discussion

Successful attorneys from 4th tier schools

Re: Successful attorneys from 4th tier schools
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2005, 04:23:07 PM »
I'll also be comparing my post-law school student loan debt ($0) with those of the T14.   ;)

Go ahead.  $125k from a T14 even with $120k in debt will come out way ahead in the long run compared to a third tier toilet making $50k with much less debt.

I'm not bagging on third tier toilet schools.  I applied to three myself and one I'd really consider if accepted.  But, I'd be lying if I said I'd pass up a T14 for a third tier toilet.  Yes, third tier toilet grads can and have had great success, but that road is much more difficult. 

It depends what your measurement of success is. Maybe someone would much rather live with less money and more spare time? You have a very narrow-minded and overall ignorant view of things. If everyone's goals are biglaw ( as they profess on the message boards) then there is a kernel of truth to your post...

Re: Successful attorneys from 4th tier schools
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2005, 04:25:45 PM »
By the way I am not speaking out of my ***. I had the same dillema for my undergraduate degree and ultimately chose the cheaper school. I am inclined to make the same decision for my law degree..

Harrahs

Re: Successful attorneys from 4th tier schools
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2005, 04:26:12 PM »
petr angelos, the owner of the baltimore orioles, went to the university of baltimore.  i think he made a ton of money in asbestos and phen phen cases.

casino

twarga

Re: Successful attorneys from 4th tier schools
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2005, 04:27:57 PM »
It depends what your measurement of success is. Maybe someone would much rather live with less money and more spare time? You have a very narrow-minded and overall ignorant view of things. If everyone's goals are biglaw ( as they profess on the message boards) then there is a kernel of truth to your post...

Ding ding ding... that's exactly right!  My idea of success is working in a small firm in my small town.  It's all about doing what you love.  I'm tired of being the office assistant, the paralegal, the secretary.  I want to be the one making the decisions, using my brain, making the better salary.  That's success.  For me, working 80+ hours per week in a corporate sweatshop would be so depressing, but for others that's the definition of success and happiness.

Re: Successful attorneys from 4th tier schools
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2005, 04:36:38 PM »
It depends what your measurement of success is. Maybe someone would much rather live with less money and more spare time? You have a very narrow-minded and overall ignorant view of things. If everyone's goals are biglaw ( as they profess on the message boards) then there is a kernel of truth to your post...

Ding ding ding... that's exactly right!  My idea of success is working in a small firm in my small town.  It's all about doing what you love.  I'm tired of being the office assistant, the paralegal, the secretary.  I want to be the one making the decisions, using my brain, making the better salary.  That's success.  For me, working 80+ hours per week in a corporate sweatshop would be so depressing, but for others that's the definition of success and happiness.

I would venture to say that it is not their definition of success but rather the byproducts that come with the lifestyle (affirmation, prestige, perceived sense of importance) is what beings them happiness. That is a perfectly legitimate way to live one's life. I just am very skeptical that people genuinely call this lifestyle success/happiness.

twarga

Re: Successful attorneys from 4th tier schools
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2005, 04:39:23 PM »
I thinks it's great that we all want different things.  I certainly wouldn't want to compete with you all for that little job at the small firm in my home town.   :-[

Troy McClure

Re: Successful attorneys from 4th tier schools
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2005, 05:17:03 PM »
It depends what your measurement of success is. Maybe someone would much rather live with less money and more spare time? You have a very narrow-minded and overall ignorant view of things. If everyone's goals are biglaw ( as they profess on the message boards) then there is a kernel of truth to your post...

Okay, fine.  If you have such a broad and open definition for sucess, then yes any student -- even a dropout -- can find success if they're happy.  That's sweet.  The whole point of this thread was talking about people making great strides in their careers even from 4th tiered schools, but if you want to water down the discussion, then we might as well close this thread.

There are a lot of options for JDs.  Those jobs that are the hardest to get are BigLaw, some federal agency jobs like the SEC, law school teaching gigs, and bigtime in-house work are all easier to land if you graduate T14.  That's the point of my statement.  I was comparing the return on investment of a law degree, and the T14 will come out ahead dollar wise and also in the doors it opens.

Re: Successful attorneys from 4th tier schools
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2005, 05:35:20 PM »
It depends what your measurement of success is. Maybe someone would much rather live with less money and more spare time? You have a very narrow-minded and overall ignorant view of things. If everyone's goals are biglaw ( as they profess on the message boards) then there is a kernel of truth to your post...

Okay, fine.  If you have such a broad and open definition for sucess, then yes any student -- even a dropout -- can find success if they're happy.  That's sweet.  The whole point of this thread was talking about people making great strides in their careers even from 4th tiered schools, but if you want to water down the discussion, then we might as well close this thread.

There are a lot of options for JDs.  Those jobs that are the hardest to get are BigLaw, some federal agency jobs like the SEC, law school teaching gigs, and bigtime in-house work are all easier to land if you graduate T14.  That's the point of my statement.  I was comparing the return on investment of a law degree, and the T14 will come out ahead dollar wise and also in the doors it opens.

You make an erroneous comparison between success and money in a career. They surely overlap but are still two different things. Do you know that the average salary at Yale is lower than lower ranked schools in the T-14? Why? Because many of these students are geared to seek top level positions in government and courts. Based on your comparison these people are less successful than the schools that almost exclusively send students to biglaw firms. In order to prove the large gap that you conclude there would have to be a comprehensive study of the per hour income, attrition rates, COL factors and so forth. The picture is far more complex than what you think. You have a really naive view of the way the job market or the world in general works. Hopefully law school will change you for the better.

Troy McClure

Re: Successful attorneys from 4th tier schools
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2005, 05:47:25 PM »
You make an erroneous comparison between success and money in a career. They surely overlap but are still two different things. Do you know that the average salary at Yale is lower than lower ranked schools in the T-14? Why? Because many of these students are geared to seek top level positions in government and courts.

Again, you totally missed my point.  It's not about money.  It's about access.  The ROI point wasn't just about money.

Those Yale grads have far easier access to those great jobs because of their school's rank as would other T14 grads.  You're the one being very naive if you think a 4th tier grad will have the same chances as a Yale grad of landing top court, government, or teaching jobs.  It's not impossible for a 4th tier grad, but it is more difficult.

twarga

Re: Successful attorneys from 4th tier schools
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2005, 05:49:56 PM »
Do you think the 4th Tier students are gunning for those positions anyway?  I know I'm not.