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Author Topic: Admissions Dilemma Or Why AA Won't Work Or White IQ is 100, Black IQ is 85  (Read 5055 times)

WoeIsMe

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Re: Admissions Dilemma Or Why AA Won't Work Or White IQ is 100, Black IQ is 85
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2005, 01:46:17 PM »

If this sort of thing actually interests you academically, there are a lot of resources out there.

I really like some of steve sailer's articles on the subject, to be honest. they are just so f-ing interesting. be forewarned-- his arguments can be kind of offensive if you aren't in the right mood. in fact, they can also be offensive if you are being perfectly open-minded.

people who beat the sh*t out of this dead horse fall into one of a few categories. among which, some people are racists, some people are contrarian, and some people are genuinely interested in the differences between different types of people. i think steve sailer falls very strongly into the 'genuine interest' category, and that is why i like his blog.

of course, he is a conservative, and therefore evil, so that is also something to consider upon deciding whether or not to read his stuff.

and, finally, i am not saying that i agree with what he has to say on many subjects-- i'm just saying that it is interesting.

anyway, his site's at www.isteve.com


thanks.. interesting site.

http://www.isteve.com/IQ_Table.htm

notice the difference in split countries:

China 100, Hong Kong 107
West Germany 103, East Germany 95
South Korea 106,  No data on North, but guarantee it is below 100

Is it racial or per capita GDP?  If it was primarily racial, shouldn't the scores in split countries be closer?

blk_reign

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Re: Admissions Dilemma Or Why AA Won't Work Or White IQ is 100, Black IQ is 85
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2005, 11:39:54 PM »
It's time to consider that the white bogeyman is NOT responsible for the continuing poor performance of blacks in school.

Consider reading this excellent article:  http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/testing.htm


Interesting facts:

* Black children from the wealthiest families have mean SAT scores lower than white children from families below the poverty line.

*  60% of blacks score below 145 on the LSAT.

*  Black children of parents with graduate degrees have lower SAT scores than white children of parents with a high-school diploma or less.


From the article:

Need a Doctor?
   Medical school admission is uncommonly competitive, there being many more applicants than slots. The competition is so intense that if black applicants were held to the same admission standards as whites and Asians, we would turn out almost no black physicians.

   We now have a double standard for admission to medical school brought about by affirmative action. As a result, two tiers of American physicians have emerged separated by race and ability.

 We have seen that law students admitted under affirmative action do not measure up to their white and Asian peers as law-school graduates. Can we say the same for doctors? We will quantify the performance gap for physicians.

   A benchmark for medical competence is the National Board of Medical Examiners (NBME) Exam Part I. Every medical student in the US must pass it to become a physician. Students take the exam two years before graduation. It is one of several ways the profession keeps itself honest. The most comprehensive study of NBME pass rates was published in 1994 by Beth Dawson et al (JAMA 1994 272:9 674-9). The authors examined the performance of every medical student in the US taking the June exam for the first time over the years 1986, 1987 and 1988. Dawson and her colleagues found that white medical students passed the NBME test at a rate of 87.7 percent and blacks at 48.9 percent. Again, using methods described in Appendix A, we found these pass rates equivalent to a black-white mean difference of 1.19 SD. Mean differences for the bar and NBME exams are conspicuously similar. The one-plus SD gap does not yield easily.

   Notably, when Dawson's study looked at entering students with similar academic credentials, the pass rates on the NBME exam were independent of race, pointing an accusing finger directly at affirmative action. For all its good intentions, affirmative action has created two levels of competence in American medicine, separated by a bit more than one standard deviation. When you are wheeled into the ER at 2:00 a.m., if you pray, pray that the black doctor who greets you entered medical school through the front door.


so.... does your IQ drop when you get a tan? Inquiring minds would like to know.
We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

boogie77

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Re: Admissions Dilemma Or Why AA Won't Work Or White IQ is 100, Black IQ is 85
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2005, 02:12:32 PM »
I may be late but...

1. Yes, "Blacks" are somewhat responsible for their lack of performance. (yeah..I'm black..yeah...I said it!)...but who is "black" and who is "white"? People who comprise these groups have changed over time. Ex. Jews weren't always considered "white".

2. Those type of studies are always flawed...1st How do you measure "wealth", by income or net worth? How do you measure "social" capital? Did they include the amount of study time--LSAT prep classes, access to previous tests--that each student put into the test? What types of neighborhoods are these students with parents with graduate degrees living in? How do you measure poverty? The meaning of poverty changes from state to state. Im quite sure that whites living below the poverty line outnumber "wealthy" blacks by a huge numbe, because they outnumber poor blacks by a large number. Would this effect the results?

3. Have you been black lately? Do you know how it feels to be discouraged from doing your best? Has someone followed you around the store for no apparent reason? Have you been pulled over by cops, just because you fit the description? All These phenomena affects the black psyche in some way.

4. How does a standarized test measure I.Q.? Can't you study to get a better score? Were you "smarter" the 1st you took the test without prepartion, or after the 2nd time when you learned the "tricks"?

This is good for debate...and just lets me know what I'll be facing in the future.

Name Changing Queen

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It's time to consider that the white bogeyman is NOT responsible for the continuing poor performance of blacks in school.

Consider reading this excellent article:  http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/testing.htm


Interesting facts:

* Black children from the wealthiest families have mean SAT scores lower than white children from families below the poverty line.

*  60% of blacks score below 145 on the LSAT.

*  Black children of parents with graduate degrees have lower SAT scores than white children of parents with a high-school diploma or less."

+++++++++++++++
I am just going to say this:

let's say you are right, and that statistically, black children have lower SAT scores even when their parents have degrees, and even when compared against white children who have parents w/o degrees....  that seems ridiculous!... but let's say it is so hypothetically...

Can you just then infer that the reason is biological?  What about culture?  What about the expectations of the children's teachers?  What about the additional pressures of being black?  What about black youth culture (I mean maybe pressure among peers to underperform academcially)?  Aren't there a lot of factors?






   
   

   
Practice LSATS: 180, 182, 183, 184
Practice GPA: 3.75, 3.81, 4.33

Trinitygunner

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Wow. call me naive--these attitudes STILL exist? makes me so sad some of these bums are going to law school and might be future colleagues. *sigh* :'(
final product...pending approval: 94 pages

mxpocc

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white iqs are only 100? what a bunch of retarded, average hacks.

mxpocc

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This is an interesting thread.  I was getting so fed up with affirmative action that the only way I could justify it to myself is maybe the races that receive affirmative actiion (and I will leave that to you to define) are innately dumber than the other races.  When people question an URM that gets into Havard 158 LSAT score or Yale with a 163 the response is always don't question unless you know the soft factors.  I am sorry but unless you found a cure for cancer or won a bunch of olympic gold medals you shouldn't get into havard with a 150 something LSAT score.  Unfortunately I know too many URM admitted to college with subpar grades and test scores that whenever I see an URM in my class I think oh thats the token AA student.  I realize that is a horrible thing to think, especially since that it could be a student with a 4.0 GPA and excellent test scores.  AA hurts the URM that deserve their spots.

does it really matter if that subpar, token AA student can't place in a great job after college?

philibusters

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If you were a white child and came from conditions below the poverty line and you are taking the lsat then your at least a standard smarter than your avg peer...seriously I'm from a middle class background, but at my hs only a couple out of hundreds of the kids from poorer background took the SAT...
Second that article sounds balantly racist.  Its so easy to fudge numbers by not keeping track of variables, having questionable variables, or going in with a preconceived bias that you totally read the results wrong on focus on only a small part of the stats.
Third, Why are people get so mad at AA...Did you literally believe it when they told you in school the world was a perfect place.  So one interest groups gets a small advantage that slightly affects everybody negatively?  Whats the big deal, isn't that what pork barrell legislation is, tax cuts for the rich, the way the corporate system benefits those on top, the AMA and ABA influence at protecting the legal profession and medical professions even...thats life...people need to stop whining and face the real world.
2008 graduate of William and Mary Law School

ImVinny!

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"who is "black" and who is "white"? People who comprise these groups have changed over time. Ex. Jews weren't always considered "white". "

This is a good question indeed.