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Author Topic: Admissions Dilemma Or Why AA Won't Work Or White IQ is 100, Black IQ is 85  (Read 5255 times)

Barbell

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It's time to consider that the white bogeyman is NOT responsible for the continuing poor performance of blacks in school.

Consider reading this excellent article:  http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/testing.htm


Interesting facts:

* Black children from the wealthiest families have mean SAT scores lower than white children from families below the poverty line.

*  60% of blacks score below 145 on the LSAT.

*  Black children of parents with graduate degrees have lower SAT scores than white children of parents with a high-school diploma or less.


From the article:

Need a Doctor?
   Medical school admission is uncommonly competitive, there being many more applicants than slots. The competition is so intense that if black applicants were held to the same admission standards as whites and Asians, we would turn out almost no black physicians.

   We now have a double standard for admission to medical school brought about by affirmative action. As a result, two tiers of American physicians have emerged separated by race and ability.

 We have seen that law students admitted under affirmative action do not measure up to their white and Asian peers as law-school graduates. Can we say the same for doctors? We will quantify the performance gap for physicians.

   A benchmark for medical competence is the National Board of Medical Examiners (NBME) Exam Part I. Every medical student in the US must pass it to become a physician. Students take the exam two years before graduation. It is one of several ways the profession keeps itself honest. The most comprehensive study of NBME pass rates was published in 1994 by Beth Dawson et al (JAMA 1994 272:9 674-9). The authors examined the performance of every medical student in the US taking the June exam for the first time over the years 1986, 1987 and 1988. Dawson and her colleagues found that white medical students passed the NBME test at a rate of 87.7 percent and blacks at 48.9 percent. Again, using methods described in Appendix A, we found these pass rates equivalent to a black-white mean difference of 1.19 SD. Mean differences for the bar and NBME exams are conspicuously similar. The one-plus SD gap does not yield easily.

   Notably, when Dawson's study looked at entering students with similar academic credentials, the pass rates on the NBME exam were independent of race, pointing an accusing finger directly at affirmative action. For all its good intentions, affirmative action has created two levels of competence in American medicine, separated by a bit more than one standard deviation. When you are wheeled into the ER at 2:00 a.m., if you pray, pray that the black doctor who greets you entered medical school through the front door.

Burning Sands, Esq.

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well well well, the Master Race speaks
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Infoolio

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   Notably, when Dawson's study looked at entering students with similar academic credentials, the pass rates on the NBME exam were independent of race, pointing an accusing finger directly at affirmative action. For all its good intentions, affirmative action has created two levels of competence in American medicine, separated by a bit more than one standard deviation. When you are wheeled into the ER at 2:00 a.m., if you pray, pray that the black doctor who greets you entered medical school through the front door.

First post huh?  ::)

This is completely irrelevant to the forum's intended content.   :-\

shiveringjenny

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Not sure if this thread is going to last that long, as it is obviously flamebait, but just posting here to get it on unread replies.

goodadvice (account resigned)

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This is obviously a regular poster who created a new name for this thread. I would love to know the real identity of this poster. Who do you guys think it is?
I've resigned from the board due to intolerably harassing and verbally abusive riff-raff on this board.

mivida2k

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Yeah. Poor thing.  Some "White" Folks are Obsessed with Af-Ams.  GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
The president's approval rating has dropped to 33 percent, matching his low in May. His handling of nearly every issue, from the Iraq war to foreign policy, contributed to the president's decline around the nation, even in the Republican-friendly South.

maricutie

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Not sure if this thread is going to last that long, as it is obviously flamebait, but just posting here to get it on unread replies.

Likewise.

Seriously, though, a tip: post under your real name. It's not worth the time to answer the same questions and enter into the same debates again if we don't have an idea of who you really are on this board.

TheZooker

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I don't mean to perpetuate this thread, but I've read up on this, and this article is a non-issue.

Due to AA, we have incoming black students with lesser credentials.  You guessed it, probably on the order of 1.1 SD.  It has been PROVEN that minority students with similar incoming credentials perform just as well as white students, at least in law school.  So this underperformance on the Medical exam is easily traced back to pre-existing scholastic deficiencies.  And where do those most likely come from?  Severely disadvantaged minorities coming from grossly inadequate, underfunded schools.

Look, there's clearly no easy answer, but this article is a gross oversimplification.

WoeIsMe

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the other thing is these scores are always being adjusted to represent the population at a given time.  RAW intelligence has been increasing, just as I'm  sure you'll all aware has the LSAT ability of the population, yet IQ is always normalized to 100, and LSAT to the best of my knowledge is normalized to 150.  The point is certainly possible for the current group average of the black population to equal the group average of the white population several years in the past.  I'm not saying that is what is happening, given that 1 standard deviation is significant, but given the change in social climate since the civil rights and technology the expected lag in an underperforming population cannot be expected to change overnight.

In this case, the derivative rate of change in group averages over time would be a more useful gauge of progress or lack thereof.

ElizaB

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It's time to consider that the white bogeyman is NOT responsible for the continuing poor performance of blacks in school.

Consider reading this excellent article:  http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/testing.htm


Interesting facts:

* Black children from the wealthiest families have mean SAT scores lower than white children from families below the poverty line.

*  60% of blacks score below 145 on the LSAT.

*  Black children of parents with graduate degrees have lower SAT scores than white children of parents with a high-school diploma or less.


From the article:

Need a Doctor?
   Medical school admission is uncommonly competitive, there being many more applicants than slots. The competition is so intense that if black applicants were held to the same admission standards as whites and Asians, we would turn out almost no black physicians.

   We now have a double standard for admission to medical school brought about by affirmative action. As a result, two tiers of American physicians have emerged separated by race and ability.

 We have seen that law students admitted under affirmative action do not measure up to their white and Asian peers as law-school graduates. Can we say the same for doctors? We will quantify the performance gap for physicians.

   A benchmark for medical competence is the National Board of Medical Examiners (NBME) Exam Part I. Every medical student in the US must pass it to become a physician. Students take the exam two years before graduation. It is one of several ways the profession keeps itself honest. The most comprehensive study of NBME pass rates was published in 1994 by Beth Dawson et al (JAMA 1994 272:9 674-9). The authors examined the performance of every medical student in the US taking the June exam for the first time over the years 1986, 1987 and 1988. Dawson and her colleagues found that white medical students passed the NBME test at a rate of 87.7 percent and blacks at 48.9 percent. Again, using methods described in Appendix A, we found these pass rates equivalent to a black-white mean difference of 1.19 SD. Mean differences for the bar and NBME exams are conspicuously similar. The one-plus SD gap does not yield easily.

   Notably, when Dawson's study looked at entering students with similar academic credentials, the pass rates on the NBME exam were independent of race, pointing an accusing finger directly at affirmative action. For all its good intentions, affirmative action has created two levels of competence in American medicine, separated by a bit more than one standard deviation. When you are wheeled into the ER at 2:00 a.m., if you pray, pray that the black doctor who greets you entered medical school through the front door.

Okay...I would like to point out a huge flaw in this argument.  This argument is comparing apples and oranges.  The USMLE (or what you are calling the NBME exam) is not only given to US grads.  A majority of the non-whites that are taking the USMLE are not educated in the US.  They are doctors from other countries coming to the US for their residencies.  Many of them don't even have strong English skills...which is a huge disadvantage on this test.  Or they may have even been practicing doctors who had completed a residency in another country that want to come to the US to practice medicine but have to pass the US exam and go through another residency to be able to practice in the US. Half of the residency spots in this country are filled by students not from US Medical Schools.  Furthermore, even many of the minorities that are educated in US medical schools are not even originally from the US...which also gives them a huge disadvantage because there is such a strong reading/time element on this test.  My boyfriend has 4 "black" people in his medical school class of 200.  Two out of the four of them are actually from Africa!  I can easily understand how on this test a person for whom English is a second language would be really hurt in their score.  This test requires the test takers to read really fast and comprehend the reading very quickly and then make a very quick decision.  However, this isn't neccesarily indicative of their performance as a doctor....they aren't going to have only 20 seconds to diagnose you!  I would be willing to bet that the African Americans born in the US who went to medical school in the US have very comparable scores to the whites born in the US who went to school in the US.
 
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