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Author Topic: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.  (Read 11870 times)

TTTchick

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Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« on: January 16, 2005, 04:05:55 PM »
Read this WONDERFUL and short interview. THEN post comments. I would love to hear people's thoughts.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/interviews/guinier.html

drew617

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2005, 06:58:37 PM »
As someone who disagrees with most of what is being said here, I really like these lings among a few others.  I think they're right on:

"So it's not just that each individual has the right to go to the school. I'm making that argument. But each individual within the state should have an equal opportunity to qualify to get to the school..."

"those who are motivated to take advantage of the opportunity, when given the opportunity, can and often do succeed, often in ways that are different than their more privileged peers"


That said, I think he dug himself into a pretty deep hole with his thing about how you can't judge one's capacity without giving them an opportunity (i.e. a higher level education) and therefore we need to admit a proportion of all the taxpayers into at least the public schools.  The interveiwer poses the obvious question when he asks if this simply diminishes standards and he seems to flop around for a while and throw some abstract concepts around to avoid answering.

Also, I couldn't help but be amused when he claims that standardized tests are designed to show the white middle class "in all its glory."  I'm sorry but that's just funny.

drew617

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2005, 07:53:17 PM »
I don't quite understand what you mean by attributing success to investments made by parents.  Could you explain this a little more?

drew617

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2005, 09:04:23 PM »
I'm still not sure how much of this I buy, but regardless I want to tell you what a great post that was.  Even if I don't agree, that was just very good.  Good summary of the arguments and refreshingly void of any unwarranted implications or ideology.

I hear America singing

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2005, 11:15:45 PM »
The problem is what she said is true- there's just no way to change it.

Rich people will always have an advantage, no matter what color they are.  You could make the test about hula-hooping, and rich parents would buy their rich kids hoola-hoop instructors and special hoola-hoops to practice with.

And someone's who's been culturally conditioned to be a "thug" (her words) probably won't make a good lawyer, regardless or whether or not they'd be a good test-taker.

So, short of a major revolution, things will pretty much stay like they are.

"I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night."

Visit my weblog!  www.sweetblessedfreedom.blogs pot.com

I hear America singing

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2005, 11:17:55 PM »
BTW, a few of my students in high school (black and white) scored in the 1th percentile on the PSAT recently. 

That's 1th percentile.

They couldn't find a person who did worse on the test.

Statistically, they could have bubbled A on everything and made a higher score.

Some people, black and white, just aren't very bright.
"I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night."

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TheZooker

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2005, 11:30:21 PM »
There are huge correlations between almost all standardized tests and IQ, or, if you prefer, the 'g' factor.  There is a strong body of statistical evidence to support this.  It is laid out very convincingly in the Bell Curve, though I don't have any online links.

I say this as a poor white boy with no schooling/prep.  Also, I think your posts are more concerned with the LSAT's predictive capability, not an AA discussion.  One should not make the assumption that these discussions are necessarily related.

aram

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2005, 11:31:16 PM »
What do you mean by white comments?????

drew617

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2005, 11:38:01 PM »
What do you mean by white comments?????

I read it as a euphamism for anything conservative.  Of course the chances that this can be invited, or even tolerated is extremely slim, judging by the trends of this board of late.

SleepyGuyYawn

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2005, 11:43:23 PM »
Ah, how wonderful.  Yet another thread on AA dominated by white kids.  Glorious.