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Author Topic: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.  (Read 12454 times)

I hear America singing

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2005, 11:44:38 PM »
yes... all of us white people are meeting in clandestine locations and effectively halting the URM infidels from posting their comments...

Give me a break.
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aram

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2005, 12:08:16 AM »
4) A test like the LSAT will test, among other things, the speed at which you can read and confidence in your quick analyses of verbal or logical problems. For example, when you are poor and come from the hood and learn English as a second language (like I did), you are not raised to have confidence in academic endeavors. Often times societal pressures mold you into a "thug" or some other type of anti-intellectual. So, if you take the test at all, you are more likely to be very timid in working out the problems and the end result is that you get worked over by the test. This has nothing to do with intellectual capacity or ability to work through complex issues in a sound, logical manner.

The problem is that a "thug" shouldn't become a lawyer and if a person cannot comprehend English very well that person shouldn't be a lawyer either. Did you know that lawyers with an accent will probably never see the floor of a courtroom in a big trial? Your argument seems to claim that it is the job of law schools to turn "thugs" and or simply people who are not "ready" into lawyers. Of course this is not so and the LSAT is designed to separate those that are "ready" or suitable for law, from those that aren't. No one cares if a person is ultimately intelligent or not. The only thing that the admissions committee or clients care about is your ability to walk out of a courtroom with a favorable decision. In many cases this means you have to talk and act in a certain way.

SleepyGuyYawn

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2005, 12:10:10 AM »
yes... all of us white people are meeting in clandestine locations and effectively halting the URM infidels from posting their comments...

And angry white folks at that.  How nice.

FloridaLaw

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2005, 12:28:16 AM »
BTW, a few of my students in high school (black and white) scored in the 1th percentile on the PSAT recently. 

That's 1th percentile.

They couldn't find a person who did worse on the test.

Statistically, they could have bubbled A on everything and made a higher score.

Some people, black and white, just aren't very bright.

And making fun of them makes YOU bright...doesn't it?

FloridaLaw.  8)

I hear America singing

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2005, 12:29:01 AM »
No, scoring higher than the 1st percentile makes me bright.
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drew617

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2005, 12:32:44 AM »
No, scoring higher than the 1st percentile makes me bright.

hahahaha

I hear America singing

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2005, 12:47:57 AM »
Actually, I would bet most rap artists would score quite highly on standardized tests, if they studied for them.

Sadly, many people in music- in genres not limited to rap- pretend to be dumb and have no knowledge of the English language just to increase record sales.
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I hear America singing

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2005, 12:48:45 AM »
Quote
The problem is that a "thug" shouldn't become a lawyer and if a person cannot comprehend English very well that person shouldn't be a lawyer either. Did you know that lawyers with an accent will probably never see the floor of a courtroom in a big trial?

There is no such thing as standard English. If everybody spoke ebonics, that would be considered proper. If everybody spoke Spanglish, that would be considered proper. English is not some universal concept that needs to remain pure. The only reason we accept a certain form of English as proper is that its the majority's style of speaking. It does not denote intelligence in the least.

Remember, the topic is taken up in the context of perceived merit of the advantaged.

 

Yes, and if we all walked around with our thumbs in our rectums, that'd be proper too.

You go first. ;)
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aram

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2005, 12:55:55 AM »
IQ, 'g' factor, "smartness"... all these things are meaningless as so-called barometers of human intelligence. Any test will only measure a narrow, culturally defined expression of intelligence. For example, I would consider rap to be an expression of human intelligence. It's hard for me to listen to say, Mos Def, and not understand that he is nothing short of brilliant. Would he be a great test-taker? I wouldn't bet on it. (Although I won't rule it out.)

Your argument as related to Law School has the same flaw I addressed earlier. I also listen to rap but I doubt that speaking the way rappers do would help me win too many cases. No one is saying that performance on the LSAT is directly related to brilliance. I doubt that Van Gough would score in the 170's nevertheless he was a genius in what he did. The LSAT measures one's ability to perform the tasks that are somewhat similar to what a lawyer would have to do. Thats it.

aram

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Re: Hopefully cliche-free AA discussion. White comments invited.
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2005, 01:01:13 AM »
You are correct that success today demands that you act and talk in a certain way. But we are a democracy and we promote justice.

The reason for inviting many different types of people into the legal profession is to transform the legal conversation. Today it is a certain European tradition of law and dress that is the gateway to success. Hopefully tomorrow we will have created a more inclusive system of justice. That is goal in a democracy.


So by your argument we should allow more white people into NBA and NFL simply because whites are underrepressented. I, as a fan, would not agree with this. I want to see the best talent possible. Clients want the best service. They do not care about anything else. And the law profession is a service as well and as any service is driven by the needs and desires of the clients.

Also, can you give me an idea of what a more inclusive system of justice will look like.