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Author Topic: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?  (Read 16698 times)

I hear America singing

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #90 on: January 30, 2005, 05:45:36 PM »
Bleh. this is a topic that just makes my blood boil. Some things just are not fair. I should have just marked "Black" on my application and I would probably have gotten in to all the schools I applied for.

You don't deserve to live, much less attend law school.

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psr13

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #91 on: January 31, 2005, 01:56:26 PM »
How about the fact that I, and all other white people I know, have faced racism. Should we be given an advantage?

Southern Gentleman, should Asians and Arabs also be given AA preference because of the racism they face?

I just want you to clarify your stance. Should black kids who grow up rich be given AA?

Please be so kind to explain why those white people who do not grow up in affluent areas should not be given AA,

White kids who grow up in poverty should be given an AA advantage.

Perhaps you were intending to argue with someone else?

IMHO, to put it in very simple and admittedly non-specific terms, each of the following should account for 1 AA "point":

1. under represented racial or ethnic minority
2. grew up in poverty

So, the white kid from the trailer park and the black kid who grew up rich should both be on equal footing w/ respect to AA advantage. But the black kid who grew up in the projects, he/she should get the most advantage.

That is a simple, but effective, way to state it. Being black will effect your level of opportunity regardless of your economic status. There will always be people that descriminate based on skin color. Of course such a person would not be as disadvantaged as a black kid from the hood. I am white and grew up in poverty. That is a disadvantage. However, I can remake myself... educate myself... make it possible that I can mix with those of much higher socioeconomic backgrounds without it having as much of an effect as a black kid that lived under similar conditions. Even the process of education is easier for me because we live in a world where primarely white schools (even in poor areas) get a much higher amount of funding for schools. The teachers will be of better quality & will treat the students differently. A wealthy black person will still be at a disadvantage when dealing with whites of similar socioeconomic status. The difference may be less pronounced, but prejudice will STILL be a part of their life in a way that we will never be able to fully appreciate.
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honeybuns

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #92 on: January 31, 2005, 11:47:42 PM »
whoa. i don't deserve to live? that's kinda harsh... :'( :'( :'(

sorry English isn't my first language.  :-X  and yea that was a bad sentence-thanks for pointing out my mistakes and giving me a kick in the butt.

i shall remove my message so i don't offend anyone else. :-\

i didn't mean it in a bad way. it's true though that african americans get into schools with lower scores. i don't wanna get into the whole AA discussion right now. i'm just frustrated that i haven't heard back from any schools. that's all.

my bad- i didn't mean to offend anyone.

dr_draino

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #93 on: January 31, 2005, 11:49:27 PM »
For future reference, if you don't wanna get into the whole AA thing...don't post on an AA thread...

whoa. i don't deserve to live? that's kinda harsh... :'( :'( :'(

sorry English isn't my first language.  :-X  and yea that was a bad sentence-thanks for pointing out my mistakes and giving me a kick in the butt.

i shall remove my message so i don't offend anyone else. :-\

i didn't mean it in a bad way. it's true though that african americans get into schools with lower scores. i don't wanna get into the whole AA discussion right now. i'm just frustrated that i haven't heard back from any schools. that's all.

my bad- i didn't mean to offend anyone.

honeybuns

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #94 on: January 31, 2005, 11:54:41 PM »
good point.

maricutie

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #95 on: February 01, 2005, 09:02:55 AM »
i didn't mean it in a bad way. it's true though that african americans get into schools with lower scores. i don't wanna get into the whole AA discussion right now. i'm just frustrated that i haven't heard back from any schools. that's all.

This has got to be the single most wrong reason to enter into an AA discussion.

Phife

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #96 on: February 01, 2005, 09:40:44 AM »
Nobody likes anyone having an advantage when they don't have one. We female dog when the rich guy doesn't wait in line to get into the club. We female dog when the beautiful girl gets pretty much anything she wants. And we female dog when our idiot friend gets a great job and Super Bowl tickets because his dad plays raquetball with someone important. But AA is very different.

Why would universities fight to admit students who have a greater risk of performing poorly in school. Wouldn't that negatively impact their graduation rates, average LSAT scores etc? But yet they still fight, bitterly, to protect this practice. There must be a reason. Nobody is forcing them to do it.

Universities believe in AA because they understand how critical their role is as institutions in establishing wealth and stability in society. College and even moreso graduate school has become the most reliable path to success and financial stability in America. That's something the black community desperately needs right now. The black community's struggle to break free of the entrenched poverty that has crippled our neighborhoods is not only our problem, it's America's problem. White America pays for our failure. You pay for our social services, you pay for our prisons, you pay for the police to harrass and intimidate us. We don't. As a whole, we're poor. We only pay a sliver of taxes. We don't contribute to society. We drain society of resources.

But it has to stop. And universities realize their responsibility to help stop it. By training the "most talented" black students at the best instituions they are training us with the intention of helping ourselves. Everytime another black man graduates from law school or medical school he has not only become a professional, he has become a role model. His burden is much heavier than getting up and going to work. Every day he has the responsibility of inspiring youth and being an alternative to Jigga and Shaq. He has the responsibility to reinvest his wealth in the black community (whether he does it is a different debate). But this is why univerisities fight so passionately to defend the practice of AA. Because they see clearly that where public high schools have failed, they have a responsibility to make up for their mistakes and train black students. Idealistic? Yes. Is there a better way to do it. Maybe. But considering universities are a haven for the world's most brilliant minds, i have to trust that they know what they're doing.

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #97 on: February 01, 2005, 09:48:27 AM »
I agree with 99% of what you said- however, I think that parents are mostly to blame when a high school student does poorly in school.  No matter what color you are, you have to want success.

In other words, there are plenty of white students that do poorly in school- trust me, I try to teach 'em.
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amarain

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #98 on: February 01, 2005, 10:10:06 AM »
You know, I don't know if I really believe in AA, but this is the most persuasive and eloquent argument I've heard for it yet. Thank you.

I also agree with America, though, that the parents have a huge role to play in all of this as well.

Nobody likes anyone having an advantage when they don't have one. We female dog when the rich guy doesn't wait in line to get into the club. We female dog when the beautiful girl gets pretty much anything she wants. And we female dog when our idiot friend gets a great job and Super Bowl tickets because his dad plays raquetball with someone important. But AA is very different.

Why would universities fight to admit students who have a greater risk of performing poorly in school. Wouldn't that negatively impact their graduation rates, average LSAT scores etc? But yet they still fight, bitterly, to protect this practice. There must be a reason. Nobody is forcing them to do it.

Universities believe in AA because they understand how critical their role is as institutions in establishing wealth and stability in society. College and even moreso graduate school has become the most reliable path to success and financial stability in America. That's something the black community desperately needs right now. The black community's struggle to break free of the entrenched poverty that has crippled our neighborhoods is not only our problem, it's America's problem. White America pays for our failure. You pay for our social services, you pay for our prisons, you pay for the police to harrass and intimidate us. We don't. As a whole, we're poor. We only pay a sliver of taxes. We don't contribute to society. We drain society of resources.

But it has to stop. And universities realize their responsibility to help stop it. By training the "most talented" black students at the best instituions they are training us with the intention of helping ourselves. Everytime another black man graduates from law school or medical school he has not only become a professional, he has become a role model. His burden is much heavier than getting up and going to work. Every day he has the responsibility of inspiring youth and being an alternative to Jigga and Shaq. He has the responsibility to reinvest his wealth in the black community (whether he does it is a different debate). But this is why univerisities fight so passionately to defend the practice of AA. Because they see clearly that where public high schools have failed, they have a responsibility to make up for their mistakes and train black students. Idealistic? Yes. Is there a better way to do it. Maybe. But considering universities are a haven for the world's most brilliant minds, i have to trust that they know what they're doing.

amelus

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #99 on: February 01, 2005, 12:33:44 PM »
Why would universities fight to admit students who have a greater risk of performing poorly in school. Wouldn't that negatively impact their graduation rates, average LSAT scores etc? But yet they still fight, bitterly, to protect this practice. There must be a reason. Nobody is forcing them to do it.

not really true.  if by force you mean legally obligated then no, not forced.  but the political and social pressure are tremendous (i'm not saying because pressure exists therefore wrong, i'm just saying there IS a lot of pressure and in many ways institutions are forced).  what do you think happens when a school has a low diversity rate, particuarly a terribly low or non-existent african american minority?  they are berated in the academic circles and often in the general media as well.  again, i'm not saying they shouldnt be attacked, but in many ways they are forced.