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Author Topic: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?  (Read 16781 times)

maricutie

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #70 on: January 17, 2005, 10:31:40 PM »
Wait.......are we talkin about sex slaves?  ???


Ooooo ... then I'd post more.  ;)

russian_concussion

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #71 on: January 17, 2005, 10:40:52 PM »
Wait.......are we talkin about sex slaves?  ???


Ooooo ... then I'd post more.  ;)

LoL hotness.  :-*
161/3.53 (in CS, not that it matters)
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BigTex

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #72 on: January 18, 2005, 12:37:29 AM »
"First of all", I'll trivialize any self-inflicted disease I care too.... whether that be crack addiction or anorexia.

I feel no sympathy to socio-economically well-off (well off socially is white, well off economically is rich) people who have the problems you mentioned.  They're rich because their dad works all the time.  They'd be poor if he didn't.  So you're going to have one of the problems..... better to be miserable and rich than miserable and poor.

HTH

First of all, anorexia is as self-inflicted as depression or schizophrenia or obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Second what is this, "I feel no sympathy to socio-economically well-off people who have those problems"? Wow, I didn't realize you had to be below a certain income level to be deserving of human kindness and empathy. So only poor people can truly suffer? Look, I'll be the first to be sympathetic towards people who are disadvantaged, but that's a very narrow-minded way of looking at the world.

amarain, surely you can see what sketchy is rather bluntly getting at. If a family has every resource at its disposal to succeed and yet squanders all of those resources (father cheats on mother, mom's an alcoholic, daughter's is obsessed with her looks and has anorexia, son is depressed because the sense of entitlement he grew up with is hitting reality) and fails because they were too messed up to know how to constructively use their own wealth and opportunity, then that's the fault of that family. Yes, i will say it, yes - that family deserves *LESS* sympathy than another family facing troubles and hardships (e.g. brutal poverty) which are *PATENTLY* not of their own making.

The fact of the matter is, i simply do not cry for the 90210 girl struggling with anorexia after watching her mother descend into alcoholism induced by a scumball father who's cheating on his wife and teaching his son to be serial date-raper. I've got anger at the rich dad for royally screwing up his family, but i don't feel sorry for them.

I don't know your background, but i'm guessing you haven't really lived in or been around abject poverty. When you're around it and in it, you just don't give a darn about the rarified problems of rich folk. There's a sense of absurdity to their tribulations that just doesn't permit much sympathy.

That being said, i remember when GW Bush lost the election to Clinton. Though my grandmother voted for Clinton she couldn't help but feel sorry for Bush: "Pobresito. What will he do now without his job?". Losing one's job is something *EVERY* family can relate to. But the bonds of sympathy are few and far between.

giffy

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #73 on: January 18, 2005, 01:01:03 AM »
I have been around poverty including people who are starving to death and living in conditions that most people in this country could scarcely imagine. That being said I have sympathy for anyone who suffers. We are born into the lot we are born into and regardless of what that lot is we face challenges and incur suffering. A kid who is abused by their parent, experiences mental illness such s anorexia, or who has to watch a family member waste away form substance abuse is some who deserves sympathy. Same with someone who is born into abject poverty.

However in terms of admissions I can safely say that someone who lived their most of their life in poverty probably had to overcome more then someone who did not. There are of course expectations and thatís why we have PS and Addendums. On balance though I have no problem with providing a sort of AA to those that had sever SE disadvantages because on balance they most likely had more difficult time.

BigTex

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #74 on: January 18, 2005, 01:16:45 AM »
giffy, i agree with you, but at the same time there's a reason why "let them eat cake!" is one of the most absurdly hilarious lines of all time. It's hard to feel sorry for the tragedy that came later.

Basically, some have it in their hearts for infinite compassion. I commend you for that giffy. But others of us only have a finite supply so we have to make distinctions on who to (and who not to) feel sympathy for.

Trevor

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #75 on: January 18, 2005, 01:19:50 AM »
The fact of the matter is, i simply do not cry for the 90210 girl struggling with anorexia after watching her mother descend into alcoholism induced by a scumball father who's cheating on his wife and teaching his son to be serial date-raper. I've got anger at the rich dad for royally screwing up his family, but i don't feel sorry for them.
Yes!  It is her fault for not choosing to be born into a better family!

giffy

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #76 on: January 18, 2005, 01:24:05 AM »
giffy, i agree with you, but at the same time there's a reason why "let them eat cake!" is one of the most absurdly hilarious lines of all time. It's hard to feel sorry for the tragedy that came later.

Basically, some have it in their hearts for infinite compassion. I commend you for that giffy. But others of us only have a finite supply so we have to make distinctions on who to (and who not to) feel sympathy for.

Thatís cool. I would just say that it is one thing to not have sympathy for those that bring about there own problems. Believe me I have plenty of experience with people who for what ever reason destroy there lives. However those that are affected by someone else i.e. children have not done anything to deserve it except to be born. Sufficient material means is necessary for completely beneficial environment but it is no were near sufficient. Some one who is born to a family of means but no love may be just as bad off as someone who is born to a family of love, but no means.

BigTex

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #77 on: January 18, 2005, 01:36:08 AM »
The fact of the matter is, i simply do not cry for the 90210 girl struggling with anorexia after watching her mother descend into alcoholism induced by a scumball father who's cheating on his wife and teaching his son to be serial date-raper. I've got anger at the rich dad for royally screwing up his family, but i don't feel sorry for them.
Yes!  It is her fault for not choosing to be born into a better family!

I don't fault her, i just don't have as much sympathy for that family as i do others. Think of it this way:

You've got an entire weekend you can spend helping a family out. On one hand, you've got a broken 90210 family. Rich as hell, but all screwed up. On the other hand, you've got a hard working mexican family living in the barrio. Their family cohesiveness is great and the family works well as a unit, they just don't have any resources to work with and are having a hard time getting ahead.

You've got one weekend to devote exclusively to helping out one of these families. Given this limitation, who do you decide to help out?

Me - i don't even think twice. I go help the poor but functional family.

That's all i'm saying.

In the end, who cares if one has sympathy or not. Sympathy counts for jack squat. What matters is action. And the fact of the matter is action is energy. And any excess energy i have to spend helping others out, that energy is going to be devoted to helping poor folk out, not rich folk. You wanna help the rich folk instead? Fine - i got no problem with that. Just don't ask me to feel guilty for not spending my finite excess energy on helping out the 90210 family.

giffy

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #78 on: January 18, 2005, 01:49:01 AM »
The fact of the matter is, i simply do not cry for the 90210 girl struggling with anorexia after watching her mother descend into alcoholism induced by a scumball father who's cheating on his wife and teaching his son to be serial date-raper. I've got anger at the rich dad for royally screwing up his family, but i don't feel sorry for them.
Yes!  It is her fault for not choosing to be born into a better family!

I don't fault her, i just don't have as much sympathy for that family as i do others. Think of it this way:

You've got an entire weekend you can spend helping a family out. On one hand, you've got a broken 90210 family. Rich as hell, but all screwed up. On the other hand, you've got a hard working mexican family living in the barrio. Their family cohesiveness is great and the family works well as a unit, they just don't have any resources to work with and are having a hard time getting ahead.

You've got one weekend to devote exclusively to helping out one of these families. Given this limitation, who do you decide to help out?

Me - i don't even think twice. I go help the poor but functional family.

That's all i'm saying.

In the end, who cares if one has sympathy or not. Sympathy counts for jack squat. What matters is action. And the fact of the matter is action is energy. And any excess energy i have to spend helping others out, that energy is going to be devoted to helping poor folk out, not rich folk. You wanna help the rich folk instead? Fine - i got no problem with that. Just don't ask me to feel guilty for not spending my finite excess energy on helping out the 90210 family.

I would probably do the same thing.  I was more referring to admissions and just generally sympathy and concern. And really no matter how you spend time helping others it is an admirable thing. There really isnít a right or wrong group to help, it is all a matter of where your passion, energy, and heart are.

BigTex

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Re: I did't enslave anyone! Why cannot people get in based upon merit?
« Reply #79 on: January 18, 2005, 01:55:20 AM »
I would probably do the same thing.  I was more referring to admissions and just generally sympathy and concern. And really no matter how you spend time helping others it is an admirable thing. There really isnít a right or wrong group to help, it is all a matter of where your passion, energy, and heart are.

Yeah - the part where it gets tricky and the debate turns ugly is what to do with *COMMUNAL* resources (e.g. tax dollars and law school entrance). If uncle sam has $1,000,000 extra sitting around some folk are going to want to spend that money investigating anorexia among middle class teen girls and how to prevent it. While a laudable goal if it didn't cost anything, i'd much rather spend that $1,000,000 on job training for poor families.

THAT'S where the real debate and frustration starts to bubble up. I guess that's what politics is all about.