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Author Topic: Pre-LS books  (Read 17957 times)

bhvexille

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Re: Pre-LS books
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2005, 04:05:48 AM »
Too bad you guys are buying it, it's available for free on bartleby

http://bartleby.com/141/

Although I guess a hard-copy is more helpful.

Esq

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Re: Pre-LS books
« Reply #51 on: January 01, 2005, 11:48:36 AM »
A couple of points about Barbri.   First, Barbri is a national company and they provide state-specific materials for state bar exams. I will use Texas as the example in this post, but if you don't care about Texas, just supply the state you do care about. 

Second, Barbri is probably the largest and most used bar preparation couse on law school campuses nationwide.  There are others, but in the end, most law students go with Barbri.  As a One-L there will be Barbri representatives around your campus.  You can sign up for Barbri your first year and "lock in" the price for the entire course when you need it after you graduate.  I believe the cost for signing up is between $75 and $150 your first year.  If you do this, you "lock in" the current price that Barbri is charging the 3Ls on your campus that year.  In other words, for an initial payment, the price you will eventually be charged in three years will be the same for the year you "locked in."  Some law students who don't make up their minds to go with Barbri until their third year and then end up signing up for Barbri as 3Ls have to pay sometimes as much as $250 more than their peers who "locked in" their first year.  You see, the cost for the Barbri  bar prep course keeps increasing, usually by about $125 a year.  I believe the cost for the entire course is now over $2,200.00. When you "lock in" your price your first year, you also get a Barbri First Year review book full of first year topic outlines (contracts, torts, federal civil procedure, criminal law, property).  The outlines are good, but they are really geared for the bar exam.  For law school purposes, they help you to organize the notes you have taken from your professor when you do your own outlines but they cannot be used by themselves to study for your law school exams. 

The material tested on the bar exam is different than what you learn in law school.  This fact surprises most people: the most important part of the Texas bar exam (or really almost any state bar exam) does not test on Texas or state-specific law.  The most important part of the bar exam in almost all states is the Multistate Bar Exam ("MBE")--a 200 question multiple choice exam brought to you by the National Conference of Bar Examiners.  This test tests on "majority rules" and "minority rules."  A majority rule is a rule of law that applies in most states of the country.  A minority rule means a rule a few states, but not  most, apply.  The MBE also tests on the FEDERAL rules of Evidence. If you are trying a case in a Texas state court, you would use the TEXAS Rules of Evidence.  The MBE only tests on the FEDERAL rules of Evidence.  So, the Barbri outlines do you give a sense of the structure of a topic, but if your law school professor emphasizes the rules of law in the state where the law school is located, the rule shown in the Barbri outline may not necessarily be the state specific rule. The bar exam may have a question where the right answer for the MBE would be the wrong answer if you were applying Texas law.

In your second year of law school, Barbri also gives you as part of "locking in" your price your first year, a second year state-specific outline book.  This book contains state-specific outlines for upper division topics such as Wills, and state Civil Procedure.  These books are slightlly more helpful for studying in law school, but I would still suggest doing one's own outlines and using the Barbri outlines more as a guide for which subtopics fall under more general topics.  All this being said, Barbri is just about essential for most people in law school and for those studying for the bar exam. 

jurrasic

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Re: Pre-LS books
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2005, 12:14:17 PM »
Thanks for the detailed explanation Esq! Very informative and helpful.

I'm also considering taking their courses.
Do you know how many students passed the bar exam without taking any prep courses?
Or like how many students each year go to Prep courses like Babri.

I'm just curious since you mentioned "most law students go with BarBi."
Considering: BC, GWU, WUSTL($)
Still hope: Michigan, Penn

Esq

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Re: Pre-LS books
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2005, 12:27:14 PM »
I don't have any hard data on how many don't take any bar prep course and pass.  Barbri claims that over 600,000 students have used them to prepare for bar exams (kind of like McDonald's claims of billions and billions served, right?) 

Also, I'm not sure what state you are interested in.  Some states have really high bar passage rates (e.g., Mississippi usually has a 90 percent pass rates for all first time takers; other states have lower pass rate such as Indiana which has about a 79 percent first time taker pass rate for a July exam--I don't know how many did and did not take a bar prep course).  In other states, such as California, you see really low first time taker bar passage rates.  California and New York have the reputation of being the hardest bar exams. 

I have a friend who graduated from UT law school.  She said she did not have the money for barbri but she borrowed the books from other friends and passed the Texas bar exam.  That is just one story I can think of.  However, for most people, the Barbri course provides a structure for the two and a half months most people use to study for the bar exam. . The course is more than just outlines in books.  The course offers a simulated MBE under timed conditions complete with scantrons to give you the look and the feel of the real thing. Barbri also provides lectures on the topics.  In Texas, the entire Texas bar exam tests on about 26 specific topics.  This is an enormous amount of material and the Barbri course helps you move through it.  So, you may be able to get by without a bar prep course, but WHY put yourself at a disadvantage?  You just spend all that money to go to law school, so just bite the bullet and pay more to give yourself every chance of passing it on the first try.  That's just my opinion...

melissamw

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Re: Pre-LS books
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2005, 02:08:18 PM »

Statistic

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Re: Pre-LS books
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2005, 02:37:33 PM »
I'm currently reading Writing to Win: The Legal Writer by Steven D. Stark. He says that he taught an advanced legal writing seminar to 3Ls at Harvard for 12 years. I just started. I can tell you if its any good later.
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xfsquirrel

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Re: Pre-LS books
« Reply #56 on: January 01, 2005, 02:59:04 PM »
Tippy Farmbuckle,

"Eats, Shoots & Leaves" is excellent.  As a real stickler for proper grammar and punctuation, I LOVED this book.  It's an informative and entertaining read.  I'd definitely recommend checking it out.

Tippy Farmbuckle

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Re: Pre-LS books
« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2005, 04:55:29 PM »
Tippy Farmbuckle,

"Eats, Shoots & Leaves" is excellent. As a real stickler for proper grammar and punctuation, I LOVED this book. It's an informative and entertaining read. I'd definitely recommend checking it out.

thanks for the reply, i think i am going to buy it, its pretty cheap on half.com...i have heard a few times that it is entertaining, and i am looking forward to see how exactly the author makes a book about punctuation so fun to read. :)

I'm currently reading Writing to Win: The Legal Writer by Steven D. Stark. He says that he taught an advanced legal writing seminar to 3Ls at Harvard for 12 years. I just started. I can tell you if its any good later.

yes i have seen this book, but didnt know much about it.  let me know what you think of it as i am already really considering giving it a read-thru.  thanks!

Statistic

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Re: Pre-LS books
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2005, 07:31:01 PM »

Quote

yes i have seen this book, but didnt know much about it.  let me know what you think of it as i am already really considering giving it a read-thru.  thanks!
Quote

I'm being really lazy, but I'll read the first 25 pages and report back to you...
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Tippy Farmbuckle

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Re: Pre-LS books
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2005, 07:48:40 PM »

I'm being really lazy, but I'll read the first 25 pages and report back to you...

lol- you are welcome for the motivation  :)