Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
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Poll

Who will be Trump's Apprentice?

Kelly
 19 (76%)
Jen
 6 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Voting closed: December 22, 2004, 01:18:29 PM

Author Topic: Apprentice 2: The Final Two  (Read 4183 times)

HURLEY- L.S.D.

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Apprentice 2: The Final Two
« on: December 12, 2004, 01:17:27 PM »
I've included a poll with this thread.  If you vote, be sure to explain why you think that candidate will win. ;)

You won't be able to see the poll results until you vote, and you can change your vote this week if your opinions shift over this week.

It is okay if the discussion diverts here and there, but let's try to keep the subject on the show as best we can.  Thread hijacking is no fun.

HURLEY- L.S.D.

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Re: Apprentice 2: The Final Two
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2004, 01:19:18 PM »
I voted for Kelly on account of what Trump said last episode. Jen will need to be absolutely amazing on this task (which she isn't thus far) in order to beat him, AND Kelly will need to make some ultra-horrible mistakes.

Given their track records, I just don't know if it will happen.

Jen is very strategic and brilliant, but she is very new to the business world. Her lack of direct experience with the role of a business leader may factor into the final decision. Trump will probably give her one of those lines about her being a great candidate down the road but right now she needs more experience, blah blah blah.

Kelly has not only the experience and the respect of Trump and Carolyn, but he also has the high approval of all those business executives.

That is like having pocket aces in a game of Texas Hold'em. Jen might be able to beat him after the flop, but it is very unlikely.

lucky7

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Re: Apprentice 2: The Final Two
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2004, 08:05:29 PM »
I agree that the approval of all the executives helps Kelly a lot, but I think it is still very close. Trump seems to go for people with some personality, some fire, whatever you want to call it. When Jen went on the attack in the boardroom, I think she scored some points. Really though, in the end, I say its so close, whoever makes some huge mistake loses, and thats it. Oh, and Kelly's team running around the field while he was working did not look good.

jacy85

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Re: Apprentice 2: The Final Two
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2004, 08:11:05 PM »
I voted for Kelly.

I just don't like Jennifer.  She's horrible at business.  She says her style is to delegate, but she really has no concept of when she needs to step up and do something herself.  Like the NBA phone call.

If Kelly doesn't @#!* up horribly, then I think he's all set.

And while agree that while it didn't look good when Kelly's team was playing on the field, you also have to take into account that Jennifer's team doesn't like her any better, and they sure as hell don't seem to have overly much respect for her.  If they had had a field to run on, they probably would be too.  (well...except maybe Pamela...she doesn't seem the type.)

Now, if Pamela were the woman facing Kelly, I think he'd have more to worry about...

HURLEY- L.S.D.

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Re: Apprentice 2: The Final Two
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2004, 08:15:01 PM »
One thing that really makes me wonder about Jen's performance is the Chris Webber issue.  It appears that he will be backing out of the MC deal for sure, and her response to that problem will really be the clincher.  If she does well, then it could give her lots of points in the boardroom; and vice-versa.

Why do I suspect that Chris Webber will back out?  Check out this article on the subject (excerpt quoted below):

Quote
"My lawyers are looking at legal action now," the Kings forward said. "There was never a part in the show. They wanted to entice me to come on there. But I said I really didn't care about being on their show. So no, I never agreed to do it, and my people are upset that they tried to use my name to snare interest for their last show."


If Jen doesn't please the GEN Financial folks then she is toast with Trump.  Her meeting with those marketing executives was already a disaster.

In event planning, the primary goal the planner should have in mind is to keep the sponsors excited and optimistic. Make them feel that you totally have it covered and that you are incredibly qualified to get this thing going. And when they start asking questions, keep up beat and stay optimistic.

Why? Because things ALWAYS go wrong with events, and if your sponsors are in a pessimistic and critical mood, then those problems will REALLY stand out. However, if you keep them optimistic and happy, then they'll be so thrilled about the event that the problems will just be overlooked as things that happened but not really anything major.

So far, I've seen neither Kelly nor Jen take this approach. Their meetings with the sponsors were terrible and it is THE MOST IMPORTANT PART!

It will be interesting to see what happens next week.

In the meantime, here is Jen Massey's website for more info.

HURLEY- L.S.D.

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Re: Apprentice 2: The Final Two
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2004, 08:22:29 PM »

If Kelly doesn't #@!* up horribly, then I think he's all set.

Totally. 


Now, for the purpose of being objective, here is what I would have immediately done last episode if I were Kelly.

1. Prepared For Problems: I would have checked the weather reports IMMEDIATELY. When I saw that it called for a greater than 20% chance of rain, I would have contacted the head of operations and ordered a large open-aired tent and had it placed in the middle of the field. This way, the grass would have stayed dry and the painters could have come in at night and finished up the logo under the light of large flood lamps.

2. Reassure The Sponsors: Once this was administrated and under way, I'd have called GEN financial and let them know that "...we have taken the proper precautions to get this event going in spite of the rain...". This way, if the groundskeeper were to cancel the event due to rain, then Kelly still looks good for at least doing everything in his power to have the event be successful.

3. Staff Motivation: I would have planned out the day for my staff and told them that if we met certain deadlines then we could enjoy some free time. For instance, he should have set a morning schedule and then orgainized a nice lunch for everyone if they got things done by time X. Then, I'd have done something similar for the afternoon schedule and the evening also. Kelly is used to commanding troops who get sent to the brig if they disobey orders. His employees have no such motivation in this setting and I think that he was just shocked that they would take off on him like that.

Allowing for the above staff-motivational issues, it should also be considered that the producers of the show deliberately instructed the re-introduced contestants to screw around and make it more difficult on the PM.  In this light, both PMs should have walked into the task fully prepared to fire at least one team member. If it were me I would probably have found a way to strongly infer this from the outset, thereby shifting team performance to ego-based control (nobody would want to risk being fired from the show twice, especially by one of their peers).




Other Notes
Each PM should have picked a co-manager right from the start, assigned them the appropriate oversight authority, then let the other two know there is a definite chain of command. This way you have someone besides yourself sweating details and you just have to put out fires while maintaining constant contact with sponsors. In tasks like these you can kill yourself with busy work.


jacy85

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Re: Apprentice 2: The Final Two
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2004, 08:30:35 PM »

1. Prepared For Problems: I would have checked the weather reports IMMEDIATELY. When I saw that it called for a greater than 20% chance of rain, I would have contacted the head of operations and ordered a large open-aired tent and had it placed in the middle of the field. This way, the grass would have stayed dry and the painters could have come in at night and finished up the logo under the light of large flood lamps.


While this would have solved the problem with painting the field, the much larger problem is the very fact that the field could be saturated.  Yes, this means the field won't be painted, but more importantly for the event, it means it's unsafe for playing polo.

A muddy, saturated field is both dangerous for the horses and riders.  A horse could easily break a leg, or a rider thrown and injured or killed.  So the field might not be painted, but no polo game = no fund raiser.

HURLEY- L.S.D.

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Re: Apprentice 2: The Final Two
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2004, 08:35:42 PM »
Of course, but (to play the devil's advocate) Kelly's goal is look as good as he possibly can in the boardroom.  So, if the ground's keeper cancels the event, which is outside Kelly's control, then at least he can tell Trump that he did everything in his power (leading up to the cancellation) to ensure a successful event.

The cancellation will be on account of the rain, but by meeting GEN Financial's desire to have that logo on the field Kelly will look like a superhero.

Matokah

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Re: Apprentice 2: The Final Two
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2004, 09:19:13 PM »
Just to jump in with my .02. . .

I hate Jen.  I think she likes to take credit for things she didn't do (see: Levi's jean challenge) and slip under the radar time and time again by not sticking out (partly project managers' fault, too, for allowing her to do this).  That, and I wasn't impressed with her quick attacks on Kelly in that last board meeting for saying he liked Sandy more.  Interupting someone like a collegue in the middle of a sentence is just plain rude and not at all business savvy.  I don't know.  To me she just seems like someone who's really good at arguing (she kind of caught Sandy when she accused her of not having researched Trump's businesses -- ouch for Sandy) but doesn't show much leadership ability ("delegating" does not mean "leading") and who likes to blame others for her mistakes.

Kelly, on the other hand, seems like a better candidate.  Sucks for him about the rain.  Don't suppose that kind of event could be moved indoors or to another, less rainy location in a different state?
University of the Pacific McGeorge School of Law 2010!!

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HURLEY- L.S.D.

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Re: Apprentice 2: The Final Two
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2004, 09:33:50 PM »


 I think she likes to take credit for things she didn't do (see: Levi's jean challenge)

I've been thinking about the whole "Jen taking credit" issue, and in reflectig back on that episode it appears that this was more Ivanna's impression than anything else. 

If, instead of Ivanna's remark, there was a cut to one of the other team members saying: "And then Jen gave the executives a really good explanation for how the wheel worked", then Jen's act would not be seen in the same light.  Not once did Jen say, "This was my idea" or anything like that.  It was purely Ivanna's view of the incident that drove this explanation, and I don't think that this is what Jen was trying to do after all.

The reason why I think this is because Jen did not feel that Ivanna explained the idea very well.  That is why Jen was confused about it for so long.  Then, when she saw it, Jen was able to realize why she was confused.  At that point she probably felt that she was more able to explain the project because she learned how it worked from the vantage point of being totally confused.  She simply took the executives through the steps that she wished Ivanna had taken her through.  This is one view of the situation.

Don't get me wrong.   I've rooting for Kelly.  I do see how Trump's selecting Jen would broaden the audience for the next Apprentice season 3 though!