Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Worse: lower score on re-take or second cancellation?  (Read 1229 times)

hocuspocus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
Re: Worse: lower score on re-take or second cancellation?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2004, 05:49:02 PM »
I took the June test but cancelled the score.  In October, I scored 2 points below my target.  I don't think I did much better last Saturday ... What should I do?
I'm in the same boat.  Cancelled in June.  Scored 5 points less than I thought I would in October.  Took the December test and feel that I will score about the same as I did in October.  I'm 80% confident I will score as high or higher.  That luke warm confidence, combined with the stigma of a second cancellation, has me leaning toward not cancelling.  And despite what previous posters have said, I really think a second cancellation is worse than a score that is 1-2 points lower than the first score.  Second cancellations may be excused for select applicants (i.e. URMs), but I'm not betting on it as a white male.

linquest

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 999
    • View Profile
Re: Worse: lower score on re-take or second cancellation?
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2004, 01:17:59 PM »
That luke warm confidence, combined with the stigma of a second cancellation, has me leaning toward not cancelling.  And despite what previous posters have said, I really think a second cancellation is worse than a score that is 1-2 points lower than the first score.  Second cancellations may be excused for select applicants (i.e. URMs), but I'm not betting on it as a white male.

I'm feeling the same way, but still nervous about scoring lower.  Then again, I'd probably have to miss at least 5 questions more than last time to get a score that would really lower my average.  Unfortunately, I tend to be really bad at guessing how many I got right in Logical Reasoning (half the test). 

I'm not sure which way I'll decide yet in the next few days....
Fed gov't atty

brooklynman

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
    • View Profile
Re: Worse: lower score on re-take or second cancellation?
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2004, 03:19:47 PM »
I don't think they look at 2 cancelled LSAT scores that badly, but that's from my personal experience. I took the LSAT last Oct, freaked out and had a panic attack on the games section, cancelled, and took the Feb exam. Didn't do as well as I'd been practicing, but good enough so that I can't say I have any regrets. Thought I could do better, took this Oct exam -- but messed up on a games question (the AD vs BC game). Had I kept it my score would have been around the same as my Feb one (having missed around 15 questions), but I didn't want to risk getting a lower one in the chance of a hard scale. You can explain a lower score the first time, but a lower one the second time looks stupid. Turns out I was right, Oct did have a tough scale, so glad I cancelled.

But I didn't even include an LSAT addendum in my apps, and I haven't been blacklisted yet. On the contrary, I've gotten good news from Gtown, Boalt and Stanford.  :)


I surprised that schools have such a liberal policy with this. I mean why not take the LSAT 100 times, give them the highest score and tell them that all the others are not "indicative". Someone who practices in the low 160s can have one statistical deviation that brings him/her in the 170s and then can say that I was sick or my dog died during all the other tests.

maricutie

  • Guest
Re: Worse: lower score on re-take or second cancellation?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2004, 12:42:21 PM »
Uh ... that would assume you actually keep 99 of those scores. If you'd cancelled 99 times, how could those 99 times "not be indicative"? It simply doesn't show anything -- except maybe a weird sadism or scary persistence. Law school are NOT liberal in this -- and for this reason they only take averages. I have 2 cancelled and one reported score under my belt, not 3 reported. Maybe you misundestood?

To a prev poster: Maybe it's just me, but I don't think LS will be overly concerned with 2 cancelled scores, URM, Rhodes scholar or otherwise. When I applied I played it safe and applied to the schools where I felt my stats would get me in even if I wasn't a URM, but even with this mentality I didn't think enough of it to send in an addendum. People get nervous, people freak out, people have a bad day ... and why shouldn't they? It's the biggest test of your life, up until now! I just think law schools are a little more understanding in this regard than most people would think.

linquest

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 999
    • View Profile
Re: Worse: lower score on re-take or second cancellation?
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2004, 12:55:53 PM »
Arrgh!!! I just found out that you're maxed out at taking the LSAT 3 times, and that includes tests where you cancelled your score.  I think that's within a 2-year timeframe.

I guess the taking the LSAT 100 times strategy is definitely out now ;)

So I definitely don't know what to do about this test.  On the one hand, if I get a lower score, even by 1 or 2 points, that will lower the credibility of my first score.  On the other, this is my only chance for a higher score.  Man, I wish I was better at estimating my performance in LR :(
Fed gov't atty

brooklynman

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
    • View Profile
Re: Worse: lower score on re-take or second cancellation?
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2004, 01:53:22 PM »
Uh ... that would assume you actually keep 99 of those scores. If you'd cancelled 99 times, how could those 99 times "not be indicative"? It simply doesn't show anything -- except maybe a weird sadism or scary persistence. Law school are NOT liberal in this -- and for this reason they only take averages. I have 2 cancelled and one reported score under my belt, not 3 reported. Maybe you misundestood?

To a prev poster: Maybe it's just me, but I don't think LS will be overly concerned with 2 cancelled scores, URM, Rhodes scholar or otherwise. When I applied I played it safe and applied to the schools where I felt my stats would get me in even if I wasn't a URM, but even with this mentality I didn't think enough of it to send in an addendum. People get nervous, people freak out, people have a bad day ... and why shouldn't they? It's the biggest test of your life, up until now! I just think law schools are a little more understanding in this regard than most people would think.


No I did not "misunderstand". What this shows is that the LSAC and law schools are prone to serious manipulation. You can take the LSAT come to these boards and we already have approximately half of the answer and deductions here - and then you can cancel during your grace period if you think that your grade won't be good. Apparently they don't care about this type of manipulation because the admins give you the benefit of the doubt that the cancellation is genuine. But yes in your case any person could just constantly take the exam till he/she does well and just say that the cancellations were due to sickness or "not finding my shoes in the morning" or whatever...

maricutie

  • Guest
Re: Worse: lower score on re-take or second cancellation?
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2004, 10:43:35 PM »
Wait, maybe I'm the one confused. You can only take the LSAT (whether you keep it, cancel it, ace it, don't show, whatever) three times within a given two year period. I'd assume that if you canceled more than twice, that would be something to look at -- all i'm saying is that twice might not raise the same kind of eyebrows as would taking and cancelling three times within a 2-yr period, then taking again after whatever time LSAC decided was fine.

As for the manipulation -- to the extent that anyone tries to make it perfect, a test is always going to be prone to some amount of manipulation. Maybe I'd realized at the test site that I'd made a mistake on the games, and cancelled right then and there. Or maybe I'd memorized the games and realized my mistake later at home. Or did post-test collaboration with my classmates. Whichever. I think this is why LSAC gives a "range" in your report, to kind of try and account for things like test nervousness, bubbling mistakes, etc.

But back to the original topic --- yeah, that's tough to say. I'd find out from LSAC (pronto) the earliest date that you could take the LSAT again. Does that mean you only have to wait one more year? If so, maybe consider taking a year off?

linquest

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 999
    • View Profile
Re: Worse: lower score on re-take or second cancellation?
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2004, 09:31:20 AM »
But back to the original topic --- yeah, that's tough to say. I'd find out from LSAC (pronto) the earliest date that you could take the LSAT again. Does that mean you only have to wait one more year? If so, maybe consider taking a year off?

I've been out of school for a couple years and really want to go back, so that's not really an option.  I'm pretty sure it's at least two years :(
Fed gov't atty

S.J.

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 448
  • That which does not kill us, makes us stronger
    • View Profile
Re: Worse: lower score on re-take or second cancellation?
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2004, 02:19:39 PM »
Just keep your current score, unless you really think it's worst than last time.  If you think it's more likely the same or better, go with it.  It's easy to underestimate your performance. 

Maricutie - definitely take Stanford -- don't even think about it.  Stanford has the best environment of any top school, is incredibly relaxed, and will guarantee you a great job when you graduate, anywhere in the country.  Only Yale can really also make that claim.
T25 or bust

challah

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: Worse: lower score on re-take or second cancellation?
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2004, 03:14:34 PM »
ok so i've taken the lsat three times, feb, october, and this december. i think i screwed up majorly on the december logic games, since i had a panic attack when i did them.  for october igot a 166 which blows given how crappy the curve was.  the question is, do i just cancel the december and fly with the 166 from october?  i also have a 3.43 undergrad GPA from gtown, and i'm hoping to get into chicago or northwestern.  any thoughts?
relax