NYU v. Duke$

[lizlove1]

Hi all,

I'm particularly interested in public policy and both these schools seem to have great programs (NYU is big on public interest, and I would probably do a JD/MPP at Duke).  On one hand, I would like to live in a city at some time and NYU has great facilities and supposedly awesome quality of life, but I'm also not sure that law school (which is already notoriously challenging) is the best time to try adjusting to NYC.  Duke, on the other hand, offered me some nice money and seems so convenient, but it lacks the great facilities and isn't ranked quite as well. It also occurred to me that I might be able to excel/stand out more at Duke b/c its smaller and my numbers (tho I know they don't mean much) are somewhat above average there.

What do you think?  Does anyone know the NYU or Duke community well? Did anyone get to their admitted students' days?  Considering that money isn't a huge deal to me, am I crazy to turn down a top 5?  Is it better to go to a top ranked school, or to excel at a slightly lower ranked one?  I'd appreciate any insight!

Thanks you so much,
Liz

[zpops]

Yes, you're crazy to turn down top 5, when you're trying to go into a VERY competitve market.  Public interest jobs are rare, and difficult to get.  NYU has the top public interest law program in the country, and beleive that they also have the highest rate of placement for pub interest jobs.  They will also give you $4000 funding for each summer you work in a public interest internship, and they have AMAZING loan repayment for people who actually go into public interest. 
     As far as competition goes, NYU simply is not very competitve, for 2 reasons.  1)  no class rank or cumulative GPA 2) Everyone knows they'll get the job they want, so there's nothing worth competing for.  The feel of the school is just incredible (I fell in love with the place at admitted students day, as did everyone else I talked to) and the facilities are beautiful, comfortable, and as state of the art as you can get.  If Yale doesn't come through for me, then I hope to see you in the fall

[cal4ever]

Yes, you're crazy to turn down top 5, when you're trying to go into a VERY competitve market.  Public interest jobs are rare, and difficult to get.  NYU has the top public interest law program in the country, and beleive that they also have the highest rate of placement for pub interest jobs.  T

This is very true!!  Despite what people might think about public interest jobs, it is extremely difficult to get public interst jobs.  I forgot where I read this from (it might have been from _How to Get Into a Top Law School_), but public interest firms are suppose to be most snotty and the pickiest.  I would go to NYU, even without the $. 

Goodluck to you! 

[lizlove1]

Hi Guys,

Thanks so much for the quick responses, and I now have some more questions  !  Why exactly did you like your NYU visit so much?  I visited there a few weeks ago on my own and talked with a few nice students who seemed to really like the school's laid back atmosphere, but what else makes the school so great (I've heard the same thing about Duke)?  Is it because of being in a trendy area of NYC or because of the school itself?  Also, I'm somewhat scared of making the transition to NYC  , including its long commutes, lack of greenery and space, and reputation for being less-than-friendly (at least compared to the Midwest where I'm from).  Did the students make any comments on these things or do you have any comments about them?   

Thanks!
Liz

[zpops]

Where to start?  The class sizes are really small, as in average class size under 15 for second year classes.  Even the first year classes are small with your 20 person lawyering section, and three 100 person classes (next year one of the 100's will only be 50!). 

In terms of class offerings, NYU offers something really unique, and IMO incredible, in their colliquia.  These classes are capped at about 22 students (but more students can and do sit in on the classes for no credit, just to participate).  They're each taught by a team of top faculty (the philosophy one is taught by Ronald Dworkin and Thomas Nagel!!!!!), and each week you read an unpublished manuscript on the cutting edge of whatever area the course focuses on, and then you discuss the paper with the author the next week.  I'm interested in academia, and to me those classes alone make NYU incredible.

The clinics also sound really spectacular.  They're capped at 8 or so students, each of whom gets their own office with a computer and a phone line, which is VERY different from most schools with large less independent clinics. 

But the bottom line for me was the feel I got at the school. It was like I could actually feel the school rising in the legal world, with constant talk of new innovative programs, and demonstrably successful programs which are in place to meet the schools new goals.

From a more practical standpoint, you will simply have better job opportunities at NYU.  Even if you're at the bottom of the class (which you wouldn't know since there's no class rank or cumm GPA) you'll probably have equal if not greater opportunites than you would coming out of Duke at any rank, especially if you plan on staying in New York.  And the importance of going to NYU for public interest cannot be overstated.  They have the best LRAP in the country (tied with yale and harvard) and have the top ranked public interest program.  God, I sound like a spokesman for the school, but no matter.  My visit actually imbued me with this much enthusiasm, and that should tell you something. 

[Enzyme]

If you have absolutely no money from NYU, then you might want to try and use the Duke money to get some, although they really have no obligation whatsoever b/c they are higher ranked. Make a deal w/ zpops that if he goes to yale if he gets accepted that he will tell them to give you his $42.5K or so 

[lizlove1]

Hey again~

Sorry to bring this back.  I've been mulling it over and am using Enzyme's advice to try to leverage NYU for some $$ (and, btw, ZPOPS, I have no problem w you telling NYU to give me your money  ).  But assuming I don't get anything from NYU, let me throw another factor into the equation:  I already have $100,000 in UG debt.  Do you think this changes anything?  My original thought was that I am already in so much debt, more doesn't matter anymore.  But I'm not sure that the decreasing value of money works that way  .   What do you think?

-Liz

[marista]

Just to throw in my two cents: I know nothing about NYU's law school except that it's top ranked, but I was in NYC a couple months ago and found the city--and the people I had occasion to interact with at NYU while I was there--extremely rude and unpleasant. And I'm from Boston, where it's not like people here are exceedingly friendly.

However even considering that, I still think you should pick NYU. You'll have way more opportunities and it will open so many doors.

[dsong02]

Just to throw in my two cents: I know nothing about NYU's law school except that it's top ranked, but I was in NYC a couple months ago and found the city--and the people I had occasion to interact with at NYU while I was there--extremely rude and unpleasant. And I'm from Boston, where it's not like people here are exceedingly friendly.

However even considering that, I still think you should pick NYU. You'll have way more opportunities and it will open so many doors.

nyc people are rude and unpleasant...but once you live here, you become just like them and consider it the norm.  if people are friendly, theres usually something wrong....or theyre tourists.

i *heart* nyc

[Enzyme]

That's a lot of debt! Good luck with trying to get money from NYU, utltimately the decision will be yours. You can pay off that extra debt, it will just take you longer and it is hard to quantify the value of NYU over Duke. Duke will still afford you great opportunities to be successful. Once again, good luck.

Not surprising that a Boston person would think NYU New Yorkers rude just after the Yankees-Sox Series 

Hey again~

Sorry to bring this back.  I've been mulling it over and am using Enzyme's advice to try to leverage NYU for some $$ (and, btw, ZPOPS, I have no problem w you telling NYU to give me your money  ).  But assuming I don't get anything from NYU, let me throw another factor into the equation:  I already have $100,000 in UG debt.  Do you think this changes anything?  My original thought was that I am already in so much debt, more doesn't matter anymore.  But I'm not sure that the decreasing value of money works that way  .   What do you think?

-Liz