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Author Topic: U of Chicago vs. NYU  (Read 1502 times)

fishman

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U of Chicago vs. NYU
« on: April 08, 2004, 09:38:21 PM »
Hi, so here's my story (which might be a good example of choosing a school based on a specific concentration vs. overall quality):

I believe I would like to pursue a career in international law, but i'm not sure whether on the corporate/business side or the government/public interest side.  I'm currently deciding between Chicago and NYU. 

My understanding (from rankings as well as speaking with lawyers) is that Chicago has a better academic/faculty reputation than NYU and would probably provide me with a better "fundamental" legal education.  In addition, Chicago has provided me with a scholarship of about 45,000 (over three years).  However, I'm also aware that NYU is also a great school and has one of the strongest international law departments in the nation.  NYU has not offered me a scholarship.

So, I'm wondering if I should pick the school (Chicago) that will give me a better "traditional" legal education (and some money) or the school (NYU) that excels in the specific area of law that I intend to practice in. 

Any help is greatly greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

 

Louder Than Bombs

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Re: U of Chicago vs. NYU
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2004, 09:50:50 PM »
Both of these schools are great schools with unbelievable reputations. You will most likely be successful as a grad from either of these schools. Graduating from either of these schools will most likely afford you the same opportunities. So, if I were you, I'd choose Chicago, unless you knew for a fact that you wanted to live in NY for the next three years and practice there. Then I would choose NYU. It has a great location, and you could begin networking immediately.

On the other hand, going to Chicago means $45K less in loans. That's a good chunk of cash.

Personally, I'd go to Chicago if I weren't from NY...I wouldn't want to move to Illinois and leave my family/girlfriend behind. But that's just me. Your circumstances are of course different from mine.

Chris

zpops

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Re: U of Chicago vs. NYU
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2004, 09:59:59 PM »
I don't think you'll be giving up anything other than a history of prestige (and the $) with NYU over Chicago.  NYU has an absolutely wonderful foundation education.  Their lawyering program is supposed to be one of the best, and all the students I talked to really liked it.  And as far as faculty goes, both schools have fabulous profs, as do all top schools.  Beyond the basics, NYU seems to have a very serious edge in your interests.  It has the top public interest program, and one of if not the top international law programs.  Another thing worth considering is the schools' respective momentum, as NYU is on a strong upward trend, and I've heard that Chicago is generally viewed as being in a downward trajectory, due to some unfortunate faculty losses.

You're choice is not easy, since both are amazing schools.  But don't choose chicago because you think you'll get a better general education.  Choose Chicago if you care about the money, like chicago more than NYC, and/or are interested in a more competitive environment.  If you want a cooperative and friendly student body, want to live in NYC, or are really serious about public interest and international law, then I'd definitely pick NYU.  Of course I'm somewhat biased, since I absolutly fell in love with NYU on my visit, and I didn't even apply to Chicago (I didn't want to live anywhere but the East coast).
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toiysam

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Re: U of Chicago vs. NYU
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2004, 11:15:20 AM »
Got no idea. but if there are some bucks with chicago then go for it.
good luck anyways
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chicagoboy

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Re: U of Chicago vs. NYU
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2004, 04:09:59 AM »
Hi, so here's my story (which might be a good example of choosing a school based on a specific concentration vs. overall quality):

I believe I would like to pursue a career in international law, but i'm not sure whether on the corporate/business side or the government/public interest side.  I'm currently deciding between Chicago and NYU. 

My understanding (from rankings as well as speaking with lawyers) is that Chicago has a better academic/faculty reputation than NYU and would probably provide me with a better "fundamental" legal education.  In addition, Chicago has provided me with a scholarship of about 45,000 (over three years).  However, I'm also aware that NYU is also a great school and has one of the strongest international law departments in the nation.  NYU has not offered me a scholarship.

So, I'm wondering if I should pick the school (Chicago) that will give me a better "traditional" legal education (and some money) or the school (NYU) that excels in the specific area of law that I intend to practice in. 

Any help is greatly greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

 

This is a no brainer. Chicago is not just shoulders above NYU, it is ankles above it. Talk to law firms, law professors, and judges and they will tell you clearly that Chicago is in the same league with Yale and Harvard. Forget about the US News Ranking and check out the Leiter rankings which is fast replacing the US News ranking as the best source of ranking information on law schools. See  these links and click on all the links to the left of the page.

http://www.utexas.edu/law/faculty/bleiter/rankings/

http://www.utexas.edu/law/faculty/bleiter/rankings/03_best_teachers.html

This is because the US News ranking of law schools is viewed by most law school Deans as fundamentally flawed, and they have condemned the methodologies used by them.

They are also ahead of NYU in employment rankings of placement in prestigious clerkships. Chicago is ranked second just behind Yale in par capita placement in United States Supreme Court Clerkships. Ranked Third behind Harvard and Yale in per capita placements of people in Law Professor positions. Chicago is ranked number one in the all-time rankings of placement in Prestigious law firms across the country. On top of that you have $45,000 to lessen your debt burden. Do you know what that means in terms of how much you can keep in your pocket out of your $150, 000 a year compensation package at a prestigious law firm. You cannot argue with the facts. Don't let the zpops force you into debt. He did not get any money from NYU and would like you to share in his debt burden. Beware. By the way, I am very intimate with Chicago and know that it is the best law School after Yale.

zpops

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Re: U of Chicago vs. NYU
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2004, 11:28:59 AM »
Don't let the zpops force you into debt. He did not get any money from NYU and would like you to share in his debt burden. Beware. By the way, I am very intimate with Chicago and know that it is the best law School after Yale.

What's with this personal attack?  First of all, I did get money from NYU (just about the same amount as OP has at Chicago).  And chicago's higher employment numbers on the fed bench and academia are primarily based on Chicago being a top school for a longer time than NYU.  Personally, I've never heard anyone who isn't far removed from law schol group Chicago with Yale, but your experiences certainly could vary.  Part of it could be that you are apparantly located in Chicago, while I'm near NYC, and you obviously find more people who are familiar with a school and therefore favor it, near that school. 
     The bottom line is that they are BOTH great schools, and you can't make a wrong choice.  But if you want to work in NYC then NYU is a better choice.  Also, the OP wants to go into International laaw and possibly public interest, and these are both areas where NYU is the acknowledged leader.  Someone choosing between NYU and Chicago can't make a wrong choice, so please don't let your own pro-chicago bias cloud anyone's decision. 
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zpops

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Re: U of Chicago vs. NYU
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2004, 12:12:51 PM »
Forget about the US News Ranking and check out the Leiter rankings which is fast replacing the US News ranking as the best source of ranking information on law schools. See  these links and click on all the links to the left of the page.

http://www.utexas.edu/law/faculty/bleiter/rankings/

http://www.utexas.edu/law/faculty/bleiter/rankings/03_best_teachers.html

This is because the US News ranking of law schools is viewed by most law school Deans as fundamentally flawed, and they have condemned the methodologies used by them.

There's one link you seem to have left out there:  http://www.utexas.edu/law/faculty/bleiter/rankings/appendA.html

That's the list of respondents to Leiter's last set of rankings.  Even ignoring the GLARING flaws in his rankings (his rankings are based entirely on faculty, and it's possible the rankings could change drasticlly on a day by day basis, since law faculty move on a fairly regualr basis), you should really look over that list of respondents.  3 respondents from Chicago, none from NYU.  Is it any surprise that Chicago fairs so much better?  And this is the only ranking I've ever seen which puts Chicago ahead of Stanford.  Scanning that list we find NO respondents from Stanford.  Coincidence?  I've heard a rumor (and this is nothing more than a rumor) that the reason so many people refuse to answer his survey is that Leiter is regarded as a real a-hole in the legal academic world, and noone wants to have anything to do with him. . .
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altrnet18

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Re: U of Chicago vs. NYU
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2004, 12:41:07 PM »
Another thing that was left out by chicagoboy... looking at the same Leiter rankings, NYU is "ankles" above Chicago in International and Comparative Law. Since the original poster is interested in this particular field, the schools' reputations in these areas are more important than their reputations as a whole. NYU is #1 on these rankings, while Chicago is #12.

http://www.utexas.edu/law/faculty/bleiter/rankings/international.html

I'll refrain from commenting on the validity of these rankings versus US News since I don't know much about this issue. Although I do remember that US News also has NYU #1 in international law.