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Author Topic: Am I doing the Right Thing?  (Read 17468 times)

LaneSwerver

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Re: Am I doing the Right Thing?
« Reply #90 on: April 05, 2005, 11:16:24 AM »
we still talking about trucking, right?

I'm not sure anymore.

hilljack

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Re: Am I doing the Right Thing?
« Reply #91 on: April 05, 2005, 07:19:56 PM »
My opinion on ps was based on what I have heard from a variety of people, including my ps prof and my general belief that majors that get you nowhere, jobwise, are easier.  I know this is not always the case, but it is a factor.

If say pharmacy were as easy as ps, you would have far too many pharmacists because people would be able to make better money than their level of intelligence would normally enable.

It is similar to the rigor of education as major-teacher's sallary-teacher's performance relationship.

bloomich

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Re: Am I doing the Right Thing?
« Reply #92 on: April 05, 2005, 07:36:55 PM »
My opinion on ps was based on what I have heard from a variety of people, including my ps prof and my general belief that majors that get you nowhere, jobwise, are easier.  I know this is not always the case, but it is a factor.

If say pharmacy were as easy as ps, you would have far too many pharmacists because people would be able to make better money than their level of intelligence would normally enable.

It is similar to the rigor of education as major-teacher's sallary-teacher's performance relationship.

outside the world of relative difficulties, which i agree is the reality of the situation... that is to say, certain things are harder for different people... but taking for granted that there is such a thing as absolute difficulties... I think the difficulty of any field can be largely contingent on the institution, specific professors/gsi's/ta's, etc.  I know at U-M, polisci is NOT considered to be very easy, whereas communications and sports management are.  I would agree that certain hard sciences at U-M are probably more difficult.  But I would also say that the job prospects of each major has nothing to do with its difficulty.  And as far as preparation for law school goes, the better law schools tend to look down on what they refer to as "vocational degrees."  That is to say, they are not big on accounting and other business degrees, which are good for jobs out of undergrad.

Certainly most all pre-med students major in biology, chemistry, etc... and plan to take that degree to med school.  Just like there is no set pre-med path, there is not set pre-law path.  I am not sure what an undergrad degree in bio will get you, but I'm pretty sure most kids who go this route either go into research (grad school) or practice (med school).  In any event, while bio may be more difficult than polisci, both are generally undergrad routes to higher education.  And at the end of the day, the difficulty of any particular concentration depends fully on the individual and the institution.

hilljack

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Re: Am I doing the Right Thing?
« Reply #93 on: April 05, 2005, 07:41:35 PM »
My opinion on ps was based on what I have heard from a variety of people, including my ps prof and my general belief that majors that get you nowhere, jobwise, are easier.  I know this is not always the case, but it is a factor.

If say pharmacy were as easy as ps, you would have far too many pharmacists because people would be able to make better money than their level of intelligence would normally enable.

It is similar to the rigor of education as major-teacher's sallary-teacher's performance relationship.

outside the world of relative difficulties, which i agree is the reality of the situation... that is to say, certain things are harder for different people... but taking for granted that there is such a thing as absolute difficulties... I think the difficulty of any field can be largely contingent on the institution, specific professors/gsi's/ta's, etc.  I know at U-M, polisci is NOT considered to be very easy, whereas communications and sports management are.  I would agree that certain hard sciences at U-M are probably more difficult.  But I would also say that the job prospects of each major has nothing to do with its difficulty.  And as far as preparation for law school goes, the better law schools tend to look down on what they refer to as "vocational degrees."  That is to say, they are not big on accounting and other business degrees, which are good for jobs out of undergrad.

Certainly most all pre-med students major in biology, chemistry, etc... and plan to take that degree to med school.  Just like there is no set pre-med path, there is not set pre-law path.  I am not sure what an undergrad degree in bio will get you, but I'm pretty sure most kids who go this route either go into research (grad school) or practice (med school).  In any event, while bio may be more difficult than polisci, both are generally undergrad routes to higher education.  And at the end of the day, the difficulty of any particular concentration depends fully on the individual and the institution.

I was not talking about what ls likes, I think all they care about is the GPA, but I have not heard anyone address the point that GPA hounds go poli sci.

bloomich

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Re: Am I doing the Right Thing?
« Reply #94 on: April 05, 2005, 07:49:44 PM »
My opinion on ps was based on what I have heard from a variety of people, including my ps prof and my general belief that majors that get you nowhere, jobwise, are easier.  I know this is not always the case, but it is a factor.

If say pharmacy were as easy as ps, you would have far too many pharmacists because people would be able to make better money than their level of intelligence would normally enable.

It is similar to the rigor of education as major-teacher's sallary-teacher's performance relationship.

also, please take an econ class or something... your logic is flawed at best...

let's say pharmacy is easy... and pharmacists make "a lot" of money... and then everyone becomes a pharmacist... either, a) they don't get hired or b) they get paid much less... equilibrium would be achieved somewhere in the middle and either way, you would not have "too many" pharamacists, by definition...

so your reductio is ineffective since it hinges on us "not having far too many pharmacists," so pharmacy must not be as easy as polisci... but who is to say if we have too many pharmacists or not... how would we know if we have too many now or not?


regardless, your entire argument is flawed because it is not hard to major in anything... it is not hard to major in physics or basket-weaving... all i have to do is go to the counselor in the department and declare...and then poof... i'm a new age interpretive dance major... doing well in something is what matters... and the amount of people that major in something does not speak too how many people are doing "well" in it... and so in no way speaks to its intrinsic nor relative difficulty... many kids say... i want to make a lot of money... i want to be a lawyer... i want to go to law school... i want to major in polsci... but then suck it up... and then go to TTT... not that there's anythign wrong with that

bloomich

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Re: Am I doing the Right Thing?
« Reply #95 on: April 05, 2005, 07:56:04 PM »
My opinion on ps was based on what I have heard from a variety of people, including my ps prof and my general belief that majors that get you nowhere, jobwise, are easier.  I know this is not always the case, but it is a factor.

If say pharmacy were as easy as ps, you would have far too many pharmacists because people would be able to make better money than their level of intelligence would normally enable.

It is similar to the rigor of education as major-teacher's sallary-teacher's performance relationship.

outside the world of relative difficulties, which i agree is the reality of the situation... that is to say, certain things are harder for different people... but taking for granted that there is such a thing as absolute difficulties... I think the difficulty of any field can be largely contingent on the institution, specific professors/gsi's/ta's, etc.  I know at U-M, polisci is NOT considered to be very easy, whereas communications and sports management are.  I would agree that certain hard sciences at U-M are probably more difficult.  But I would also say that the job prospects of each major has nothing to do with its difficulty.  And as far as preparation for law school goes, the better law schools tend to look down on what they refer to as "vocational degrees."  That is to say, they are not big on accounting and other business degrees, which are good for jobs out of undergrad.

Certainly most all pre-med students major in biology, chemistry, etc... and plan to take that degree to med school.  Just like there is no set pre-med path, there is not set pre-law path.  I am not sure what an undergrad degree in bio will get you, but I'm pretty sure most kids who go this route either go into research (grad school) or practice (med school).  In any event, while bio may be more difficult than polisci, both are generally undergrad routes to higher education.  And at the end of the day, the difficulty of any particular concentration depends fully on the individual and the institution.

I was not talking about what ls likes, I think all they care about is the GPA, but I have not heard anyone address the point that GPA hounds go poli sci.

I think many kids go into polisci because they think it is an appropriate major for law school and I think many go into it because they like it.  I have never heard of anyone going into polisci to boost their GPA.  At least at UM, polisci is considered to be pretty difficult--certainly not an easy A.  Anyone who wants to guarantee a good gpa should go into communications or something.  But polisci does not fall into that category.  But again, I don't know what school you go to and I don't know what kind of polisci department you have.  All I know is that UM's program is in the top 10 and it is not easy.  And if you go into it thinking it will be an easy 4.0, then you have something else coming your way.  Are other majors more difficult on the whole? sure... I'm sure it's not the most difficult major on campus... but I would never consider it a blow-off, easy A concentration.

Dominique

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Re: Am I doing the Right Thing?
« Reply #96 on: April 05, 2005, 10:19:35 PM »
I was not talking about what ls likes, I think all they care about is the GPA, but I have not heard anyone address the point that GPA hounds go poli sci.

Oh, you haven't heard anyone address that point, huh? 
 ::)
3.7/165.  How crazy to finally have real stats...

hilljack

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Re: Am I doing the Right Thing?
« Reply #97 on: April 05, 2005, 11:53:43 PM »
My opinion on ps was based on what I have heard from a variety of people, including my ps prof and my general belief that majors that get you nowhere, jobwise, are easier.  I know this is not always the case, but it is a factor.

If say pharmacy were as easy as ps, you would have far too many pharmacists because people would be able to make better money than their level of intelligence would normally enable.

It is similar to the rigor of education as major-teacher's sallary-teacher's performance relationship.

also, please take an econ class or something... your logic is flawed at best...

let's say pharmacy is easy... and pharmacists make "a lot" of money... and then everyone becomes a pharmacist... either, a) they don't get hired or b) they get paid much less... equilibrium would be achieved somewhere in the middle and either way, you would not have "too many" pharamacists, by definition...

so your reductio is ineffective since it hinges on us "not having far too many pharmacists," so pharmacy must not be as easy as polisci... but who is to say if we have too many pharmacists or not... how would we know if we have too many now or not?


regardless, your entire argument is flawed because it is not hard to major in anything... it is not hard to major in physics or basket-weaving... all i have to do is go to the counselor in the department and declare...and then poof... i'm a new age interpretive dance major... doing well in something is what matters... and the amount of people that major in something does not speak too how many people are doing "well" in it... and so in no way speaks to its intrinsic nor relative difficulty... many kids say... i want to make a lot of money... i want to be a lawyer... i want to go to law school... i want to major in polsci... but then suck it up... and then go to third tier toilet... not that there's anythign wrong with that

Actually I am an econ major.  But the point was not that if pharmacy were easy, so many people would study it; it was that a job that has a high sallary is justified by the difficulty in training (school) for that job.

And because you are so interested in economics, why don't you read Wealth of Nations where Adam Smith explains that high wages for certain jobs (lawyer, physician) are based on the time it takes to become one, the difficulty of the training and the number of people who fail.

bloomich

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Re: Am I doing the Right Thing?
« Reply #98 on: April 06, 2005, 12:55:06 AM »
My opinion on ps was based on what I have heard from a variety of people, including my ps prof and my general belief that majors that get you nowhere, jobwise, are easier.  I know this is not always the case, but it is a factor.

If say pharmacy were as easy as ps, you would have far too many pharmacists because people would be able to make better money than their level of intelligence would normally enable.

It is similar to the rigor of education as major-teacher's sallary-teacher's performance relationship.

also, please take an econ class or something... your logic is flawed at best...

let's say pharmacy is easy... and pharmacists make "a lot" of money... and then everyone becomes a pharmacist... either, a) they don't get hired or b) they get paid much less... equilibrium would be achieved somewhere in the middle and either way, you would not have "too many" pharamacists, by definition...

so your reductio is ineffective since it hinges on us "not having far too many pharmacists," so pharmacy must not be as easy as polisci... but who is to say if we have too many pharmacists or not... how would we know if we have too many now or not?


regardless, your entire argument is flawed because it is not hard to major in anything... it is not hard to major in physics or basket-weaving... all i have to do is go to the counselor in the department and declare...and then poof... i'm a new age interpretive dance major... doing well in something is what matters... and the amount of people that major in something does not speak too how many people are doing "well" in it... and so in no way speaks to its intrinsic nor relative difficulty... many kids say... i want to make a lot of money... i want to be a lawyer... i want to go to law school... i want to major in polsci... but then suck it up... and then go to third tier toilet... not that there's anythign wrong with that

Actually I am an econ major.  But the point was not that if pharmacy were easy, so many people would study it; it was that a job that has a high sallary is justified by the difficulty in training (school) for that job.

And because you are so interested in economics, why don't you read Wealth of Nations where Adam Smith explains that high wages for certain jobs (lawyer, physician) are based on the time it takes to become one, the difficulty of the training and the number of people who fail.

okay... but polisci is not a "vocational" degree as is pharmacy... so it's not a fair comparison... polisci majors generally go into something else because that is the nature of the major... since polisci is generally not an end unto itself, its employment prospects can in no way speak to its difficulty... since most polisci majors go into the field to go into law or public policy, it is unfair to judge the concentration by its lone employment prospects...

your argument is this... correct?

difficult preparation --> few qualified workers
few qualified workers --> highly paid
not highly paid --> not hard, difficult preparation

so since polisci majors don't get highly paid, they must not go through hard, difficult preparation... but the fact of the matter is that pay is determined by more then just supply... the confounding variable that is demand may not be so strong for polisci majors out of undergrad... since these majors only really become in demand when they morph into MPPs, JDs, etc... that is to say... the premise that few qualified workers --> highly paid is not necessarily true... if a few, qualified workers have mastered the art of balancing 5 toothpicks tip-to-tip on their eyeballs... such a skill may require 20 years of sleepless nights to completely master it... yet they may not make a dime for it... because who the hell cares about balancing toothpicks on your eye!... so, I think the better argument is that polisci is not a vocational degree in that it does not prepare you for valued work in and of itself... but it still may be a very difficult, rigorous program that will prepare you very well for law school... after which, you'll get reimbursed nicely--hopefully

hilljack

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Re: Am I doing the Right Thing?
« Reply #99 on: April 06, 2005, 04:33:19 PM »
okay... but polisci is not a "vocational" degree as is pharmacy... so it's not a fair comparison... polisci majors generally go into something else because that is the nature of the major... since polisci is generally not an end unto itself, its employment prospects can in no way speak to its difficulty... since most polisci majors go into the field to go into law or public policy, it is unfair to judge the concentration by its lone employment prospects...

your argument is this... correct?

difficult preparation --> few qualified workers
few qualified workers --> highly paid
not highly paid --> not hard, difficult preparation

so since polisci majors don't get highly paid, they must not go through hard, difficult preparation... but the fact of the matter is that pay is determined by more then just supply... the confounding variable that is demand may not be so strong for polisci majors out of undergrad... since these majors only really become in demand when they morph into MPPs, JDs, etc... that is to say... the premise that few qualified workers --> highly paid is not necessarily true... if a few, qualified workers have mastered the art of balancing 5 toothpicks tip-to-tip on their eyeballs... such a skill may require 20 years of sleepless nights to completely master it... yet they may not make a dime for it... because who the hell cares about balancing toothpicks on your eye!... so, I think the better argument is that polisci is not a vocational degree in that it does not prepare you for valued work in and of itself... but it still may be a very difficult, rigorous program that will prepare you very well for law school... after which, you'll get reimbursed nicely--hopefully

First of all, I did not mean to imply that the difficulty in training etc. were the only factors in compensation.

Anyway, I don't think it is fair to say poli sci prepares you for law school any better than another major.  I don't know if that is what you were getting at, but in case it was, I have never heard anyone say something like that who has been to law school.

As far as vocational v. non-vocational or vocational v. bad(education social, work-based on salary, not being an elitist) vocation/non-vocational, I think the trend is toward the vocational being harder.  That is, getting a better job requires more than getting no job or a low paying one.

Examples:
I beleive the highest paying jobs for ug go to those who major in engineering and computer science.  These, it so happens are very difficult.

In the business school (and I believe this is true at a lot of schools), Accounting is much harder than Marketing.  Accounting majors make more money.

I geuss all this is to say that although I don't beleive there is a direct corelation, it is a reasonable tool to judge difficulty; that is if people are (in general) concerned about there future income.