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Author Topic: $alary Range query  (Read 7013 times)

dta

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Re: $alary Range query
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2004, 04:47:15 PM »
I really didn't intend for you to take it that way corleone. My mother is a lawyer, as are other family members. They also tell me how wonderful I will be as a lawyer. I could do one of two things with these compliments - take them as proof i will indeed be a wonderful lawyer, or take them as nice things family members say to loved ones. The latter approach seems more prudent and less likely to lead to taking success for granted. That's all.

Wasn't trying to discourage you. Good luck on your apps.

corleone

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Re: $alary Range query
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2004, 04:49:17 PM »


  You couldnt discourage me if you wanted to... thanks for the clarification... honestly i normally wouldnt have responded but i was bored and work sucked today...

  good luck to u as well
             C.

jrmadtown

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Re: $alary Range query
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2004, 04:50:30 PM »
I'm up with the "work sucks today" sentiment.
Go Bush!  (8

jas9999

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Re: $alary Range query
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2004, 04:51:45 PM »
would we all be reading/posting here if work didn't suck?

jrmadtown

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Re: $alary Range query
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2004, 04:53:27 PM »
Point taken, although some of the posters could be unemployed sitting at home in their bathrobes.  Plus, we should give credit to the students who are "studying" not working.
Go Bush!  (8

dta

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Re: $alary Range query
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2004, 04:55:57 PM »
There is no way anyone in IT makes 250K. Software engineers with advanced degrees in computer science don't even make that kind of money. From my experience as a software engineer (a profession that *usually* tends outpace, in terms of salary, general IT a bit) you simply won't make above 150K tops unless there are extraordinary circumstances involved (e.g. the software engineer who worked for AOL and wrote all their initial proprietary dial-up software using his unique NDIS driver knowledge - forgot his name but he made major $$$).

If someone in IT does make 250K it is not qua IT-guy. It is due to some other factor (e.g. he/she owns the rights to "TheCompanyName.com" and is able to leverage a ridiculously large salary).

jas9999

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Re: $alary Range query
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2004, 05:10:35 PM »
CTO/CIO types can make that much, but at that point, they're strictly managerial, and not tech oriented. Other than that, the only way you'll make that is by starting up your own successful company or getting stock options in one of the few tech companies that actually make a profit...

dta

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Re: $alary Range query
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2004, 05:22:00 PM »
Yeah - once your day is spent deciding the technical direction of the company and you're arbitrating disputes between mid-level managers, you're not much of an IT guy anymore.  :-)

forthguy

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Re: $alary Range query
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2004, 07:16:11 PM »
There is no way anyone in IT makes 250K. Software engineers with advanced degrees in computer science don't even make that kind of money. From my experience as a software engineer (a profession that *usually* tends outpace, in terms of salary, general IT a bit) you simply won't make above 150K tops unless there are extraordinary circumstances involved (e.g. the software engineer who worked for AOL and wrote all their initial proprietary dial-up software using his unique NDIS driver knowledge - forgot his name but he made major $$$).

This topic has come up in the past.

Definitely, it's important to separate IT and software engineering.  The random AOL example you cite (regardless of its veracity) most likely would have made his money from AOL stock options.  Even call center staff at AOL made more on options than his salary.  After all, a good software engineer writes code that lesser programmers can manage.

However, it's also not necessarily the case that software engineers will outdistance IT guys in salary.  Somewhere along the line, senior software engineers and senior IT guys become architects, and only when that happens will they tend to see salaries at or above the $150K range, excepting options, stock purchase plans, profit sharing, or bonuses.  All of those things can certainly help income get into that stratosphere.   Not to mention, consultants who specialize in key IT areas can still make a mint.  A friend of mine who's a senior IT guy at a top research university can easily pass that number because his credentials (and the university) permit him to go out on $3000/day consulting gigs to corporations.

Nonetheless, walking out the door of a certificate mill with an MCSE is unlikely to net anyone substantial money.  There are likely IT experts on Wall Street and in other financial services companies that make massive amounts of money, maybe even seeing $250K in a year.  But they didn't get there because of the MCSE alone.  If anything, they've only got the MCSE because it was a requirement.  In my estimation, the CCIE is the most prestigious professional certification in IT, and unless you're architecting the largest of backbones, your salary still probably won't break the $150K threshold.  During the dot-com boom, I once had a $140K annual salary, which lasted all of one year.  That was nice.  Millions in stock would've been better.  :)


Picking a profession based on salary is dangerous.  You're never going to be happy, and you're going to dread going to work everyday to earn that paycheck.  I can't help but wonder if the notions of legal riches that bring so many into the practice isn't also what leads to such great depression in the legal community.  I see people here and elsewhere talk about the grueling "60-hour weeks" of biglaw.  Somehow, I seriously doubt they're so short.  And working 80 to 100 (or more) hours per week, week-after-week is tough.  I've done it.  And if you don't really enjoy what you're doing (fortunately, I did at the time) it's going to be impossible to ever enjoy the fruits of those labors.

Salary info has to be taken with a grain of salt.  You can bet that those $135K+ starting salaries don't go out to people getting paid to sit in their offices looking pretty.  Those salaries are paid by client billables, which often comes down to some pretty nagging work.

Greg

dta

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Re: $alary Range query
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2004, 07:43:57 PM »
fwiw, the AOL guy I mentioned is not apocryphal. I actually interviewed him for a job at a company i used to work for. And he made his large sum of money on straight consulting fees (a long 1.5 - 2 year gig), not stock options. As I said, he had intimate knowledge of NDIS drivers (a rare knowledge specialty) which was instrumental in forming the core of AOL's proprietary technology. He was too expensive for us - his consulting fee came out to around 500K per year and he was in no short supply of clients.

Also, I was pretty careful to specifically *not* say that software developers *necessarily* make more than IT guys. Generally though, salaries for your average joe software developer tend to be higher than your average joe IT guy. Not that it matters much now though - salaries in both professions are tanking as knowledgeable individuals flood the market and jobs go to india.

In every proffession you can find *someone* who makes bank. When I questioned the 250K claim, it was on the basis that said person made 250K because of their IT skills alone with little more than an MCSE to explain the salary. Anyone in any field who is making way above the average in their field is not doing so because of their membership in that field - i.e. their disproportianately high salary is not due to what they have in common with other practitioners in that field. Rather, the high salary is due to the fact that they are somehow atypical of the professionals in that field. Thus, in explaining the high salary for such individuals it is misleading to put forth as the explanation for the high salary mere membership in the field.