no blood for oil at $54 per barrel

[! B L U E WAR R I O R..!]

some people forget about the "kurds" this culture is struggling for existance in many parts of the indus valley...iraq...iran...turkey ...caucasia...this culture is happy that hussain's children are dead...

Also true. They're the ones that Saddam gassed (with American money and tacit blessing). I believe they are the largest ethnic group in the world without a state.

well, let's just say that the credits in your pocket today might have once been in hussain's children's pockets at one time...you didn't pay him...did you? but it wasn't american money it was iraqi dinars and aye believe the hussain's had their own money...remember the palaces?

but they are happy hussain's children are dead...because money did not kill them...people killed them...and those people are dead and others have been called out.
the tacit blessing is from the dead kurds' families and their slaughtered children.

ask some of them.  you seem intelligent...find out about their history.

and the kurds are a culture of people...please let's not get bogged down with the "ethnicity" label.  200 or 300 yrs from now...if the human race is still around...they will look back at us and say that our labels...like "ethnicity" were a "cognitive delusion of our era ."

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'll give you the ethnicity part - I couldn't think of a better word, because culture is a bit inadequate. But what are you talking about it was iraqi dinars and the tacit blessing is from the dead kurds' families??
My point is that at the time that Saddam murdered the Kurds in that one particular horrible gas attack, he was an ally of the US which was supplying him with money and support. I can't figure out if you understood me and are deliberately trying to make some other point or if you didn't understand what I meant.

you did not need to use the words in parenthesis. when you wrote what you wrote...that was my point. american money and support did not kill the kurds.

what was in the parenthesis was your point...so...i think...
you are connecting usa=money to iraq=spent on chemicals=to kill kurds..ergo what?

it doesn't matter who his ally was when he chose to slaughter people. the two have nothing to do with each other. iraq had its own agenda...and part of that was getting rid of the kurds.  he could kill whomever he wanted and did. he didn't need u.s. money to do that.  he used his own money...dinars.

hussain and his children had money and chemicals and bullets for that matter...they decide who they were going to murder with THEIR OWN MONEY AND use their OWN HANDS and OWN GUNS to do it.

an analogy...jews in germany gave money to support their own country before hitler came a long and continued to do so as he rose to power...hitler used the money the german government had and others to create a military machine then he murdered many of those jews...so, just because at the time they had supported their government doesn't have anything to do with the fact that hitler and his regime...by their own hand slaughtered people... make sense?
i'm sure they didn't support hitler and his use of resources to kill themselves...that's what he and his military regime decided.

the us and japan and england and france and germany and russia and saudi arabia and iran and turkey and togo and tunisia gave their tacit blessing as well...because none of those countries tried to help the kurds.  one could say that. no?

husseins children are dead...the dead kurds silent prayer was answered.

clearer?

px.o rasta

[trogdor]

this was clearly not a humanitarian war to save the people from death camps in iraq.  look at sudan now.  where is the u.s. in that mess?  regardless of whether or not saddam was a good or bad ruler who caused pain and suffering, the fact that the american people were given unreliable evidence to justify a war that we now realize was bull is something that the bush administration must be held accountable for.  what burns me most about it is that bush, cheney, rumsfield, etc. all act like they did nothing wrong.  at least take some blame.

it's pretty clear that the strategy is to deny all responsibility.  rove has done an excellent job of pushing the "no apologies approach".  it works because a majority of america doesn't have a clue about what's going on in the world.

[Koga]

Anyway, Turkey has also horribly mistreated the Kurds as well. Iraq is not alone in that.

Sadam gassed the Kurds.  Turkey did nothing even vaguely resembling that.

The PKK is responsible for more Kurdish deaths than the Turkey army.  They ruthlessly killed any Kurd which they felt aided Turkey.  And most of the Kurdish deaths caused by Turkey were soldiers.

Most of Turkeys mistreatment of the Kurds is related to Kurdish desire to preserve their cultural traditions.  Turkey maintains that there is really no such thing as a Kurd--that the people who call themselves Kurds are really 'Mountain Turks'.  Using this logic, Turkey refuses to allow the Kurds to study their language or practice their culture, since any such expression undermines the Turkish government's assertion that everyone in Turkey is Turkish. 
It's interesting that while Russia and Israel take great pains to distinguish themselves form the people they oppress, Turkey pretends like the people they oppress are just confused Turks.


I think that this administration will ultimately spin the invasion as an action necessary to remove a war criminal with a callous disregard for human rights.  Of course by those standards, we should invade Israel.

[trogdor]

I think that this administration will ultimately spin the invasion as an action necessary to remove a war criminal with a callous disregard for human rights.  Of course by those standards, we should invade Israel.

israel and about a 100 other nations on the planet.  but what better way to alleviate pain and suffering than a preemptive war?!

[Koga]

And I really don't know enough about the situation to discuss it intelligently, so I'll just admit that my knowledge is limited and leave it at that.

If only more people were as wise as you are, the world would be a much better place.

[TrojanChispas]

israel cannot be reasonably compared to iraq.

[amarain]

israel cannot be reasonably compared to iraq.

I agree, but what do you mean? In what way are you talking about comparing them?

[TrojanChispas]

as far as human rights abuses

[! B L U E WAR R I O R..!]

OK, bluewarrior, I think I see what you mean now. But I disagree with you in that I believe sending military aid to a country means that you are condoning its military practices. If I'm beating up an guy, and you give me some money and say, "you are my friend", you are basically supporting what I'm doing, indirectly. Similarly, the US (and all the other countries who were sending Saddam military aid at the time) were supporting the slaughter of the Kurds, indirectly. Who knows where the exact funds for the gas came from? Just because the dollars got converted to dinars at the border means nothing.

Anyway, Turkey has also horribly mistreated the Kurds as well. Iraq is not alone in that.

military support...(gov. wise) it was to beat back along the eastern front...for one...yes.
military support ...to protect and patrol...your own land.

hussain and his children used military support...to murder people in their own country.
i'm not sure they used the military to do this but it's true...bullets were used to kill kurds...and gas. "imagine troops sent into the kurds village and executing them."
did america pay for that? absolutly not. and...maybe...if you don't look at the human element.  just because aye give a friend a gun for protection doesn't mean aye support his shooting spree.

your example...aye don't want to comment on that.

and by the way the word "indirectly" in this "global world" is passe.

pardon the fr%$ch. and aye am six degrees of separation from the pope...know what i mean?

my take is cutthroat: he s.did it h.he pays....


twist that however you like.

the govs.of iran, turkey, russia, have clandestinely recognized the kurds.
but they(kurds) and others...are truly happy that mr. hussain's children are passe.
aye do not excuse my french ;)you must look at this from all aspects of the coin...it is possible for a coin to land on its edge...and this comment is only for effect it has no bearing on what is discussed but that there is another alternative.

so, ms. amarain, why so down on the u.s.? there ARE democrats in control since 2000 as well, ya know.  don't be too worried.

[Koga]

israel cannot be reasonably compared to iraq.

Israeli human rights violations are nowhere near as extreme as those under Sadaam.  I doubt that anyone would say otherwise.  But while the brutality in Iraq was the work of one despotic regime, Israel's brutality is the work of many different democratically elected leaders(although some Israeli PMs have been serious about ending human rights violations).