no blood for oil at $54 per barrel

[bluetooth]

According to some phychologists' analysis, President Bush had an unhappy childhood as the loser in competing with his daddy for his mother's attention. Daddy was just perfect and too powerful. little Bush's ego was hurt but not dead. In overthrowing Saddam of Iraq, he felt his power because he had done something daddy didn't do.

[defense]

I think we went to war in order to stop a burgeoning threat, one that (a) had used WMDs before, (b) was making open threats against the US, and (c) was blatantly disregarding the conditions placed upon it after it had invaded another country without provocation less than 15 years earlier.

But that's just me

(good troll thread)

I agree with you Tom 100%.  Furthermore, I believe that Bush's actions were justifiable based on the premise that he made it clear if Saddam continued to refuse UN weapons inspectors into Iraqi he would force Saddam to comply. 

[bluetooth]

Amarain, the world will be a better place if more people are like you. I can't imagine being an Iraqi. Is there any other people as unfortunate as the Iraqi people?

[GentleTim]

Amarain, the world will be a better place if more people are like you. I can't imagine being an Iraqi. Is there any other people as unfortunate as the Iraqi people?

I would nominate black people living in Dafur.

[rohan]

I think we went to war in order to stop a burgeoning threat, one that (a) had used WMDs before, (b) was making open threats against the US, and (c) was blatantly disregarding the conditions placed upon it after it had invaded another country without provocation less than 15 years earlier.

But that's just me

(good troll thread)

A nation that has used WMDs before, made open threats against others, and invades other countries without provocation - who does that sound like? Hmmm 

All this talk about enforcing UN resolutions is so hypocritical. If you want to enforce some UN resolutions, start with Israel, who has been violating them long before Iraq entered the scene.

By the way, at least one study has confirmed my suspicions that Iraqis are worse off now than they were under Saddam: http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/iraq.deaths/index.html.

"While the major causes of death before the invasion were heart attack, stroke, and chronic illness, the risk of dying from violence after the invasion was 58 times higher than in the period before the war."

Solid Post

[TrojanChispas]

I think we went to war in order to stop a burgeoning threat, one that (a) had used WMDs before, (b) was making open threats against the US, and (c) was blatantly disregarding the conditions placed upon it after it had invaded another country without provocation less than 15 years earlier.

But that's just me

(good troll thread)

 yes that is just you.  because as i see it although he had used WMD in a WAR he hadnt in a long time, including in 1991 when we were at war with him.  not to mention in 2003 when we invaded his country he still didnt use WMD aganinst us.  what threats did saddam make against the US?  Finally, kuwait was historically a part of Iraq untill the colonial powers divided it up that way.  also, the kuwaitis were slant drilling into his oilfields.

yes saddam was a bad man, but there are many bedsides him and it is not incumbent on the US to police the world alone.  We are going to be in iraq "rebuilding" for a very long time. maybe the next time we decide to invade a counrty we should have much more international cooperation so we arent bearing the brunt of the costs as we are now

[amarain]

Back at you, bluetooth.

I just wish people would educate themselves more on what is really happening in the world. Read some relatively unbiased history, or try to get both sides at the very least. Watch or read some non-American news sometime. Sadly, most people barely even watch the evening local news, let alone attempt to get another perspective on things. I think we need to be instilling this kind of open-mindedness and curiosity about the world at an early age. Kids are naturally curious about things, and our current school system does everything possible to squelch that curiosity. And of course, we're seeing the effect of that today.

What's so sad about Iraq is that it was really quite a developed country. It has such a rich history of intellect and achievement, and even women were far more liberated under Saddam than they are currently under our good buddies, the Saudis.

What's even sadder is that GentleTim is right, the blacks in Sudan are at least as bad off as the Iraqis, as are the Palestinians (especially in Gaza), the Angolans, and so many more that never make the evening news (I'm sure cynics among us could come up with a number of probably correct reasons for this).

When was the last time you heard about northern Uganda? Literally tens of thousands of kids have been kidnapped and not only subject to incredible violence, they're forced to become soldiers themselves. Think about how grown men came back from Vietnam horribly damaged, physically and mentally. Now imagine an 8-year-old who went through the same thing. What do you think that's going to do to their society when those kids grow up?  THIS is the kind of humanitarian crisis that the US should be intervening in, not some second-rate dictator who pretends to have WMDs to impress his neighbors.

Sorry for the length, clearly this topic gets me going.

[GentleTim]

Back at you, bluetooth.

I just wish people would educate themselves more on what is really happening in the world. Read some relatively unbiased history, or try to get both sides at the very least. Watch or read some non-American news sometime. Sadly, most people barely even watch the evening local news, let alone attempt to get another perspective on things. I think we need to be instilling this kind of open-mindedness and curiosity about the world at an early age. Kids are naturally curious about things, and our current school system does everything possible to squelch that curiosity. And of course, we're seeing the effect of that today.

What's so sad about Iraq is that it was really quite a developed country. It has such a rich history of intellect and achievement, and even women were far more liberated under Saddam than they are currently under our good buddies, the Saudis.

What's even sadder is that GentleTim is right, the blacks in Sudan are at least as bad off as the Iraqis, as are the Palestinians (especially in Gaza), the Angolans, and so many more that never make the evening news (I'm sure cynics among us could come up with a number of probably correct reasons for this).

When was the last time you heard about northern Uganda? Literally tens of thousands of kids have been kidnapped and not only subject to incredible violence, they're forced to become soldiers themselves. Think about how grown men came back from Vietnam horribly damaged, physically and mentally. Now imagine an 8-year-old who went through the same thing. What do you think that's going to do to their society when those kids grow up?  THIS is the kind of humanitarian crisis that the US should be intervening in, not some second-rate dictator who pretends to have WMDs to impress his neighbors.

Sorry for the length, clearly this topic gets me going.

I'll back you up on all of those spots (though I suspect we'd have some disagreement about the situation in Palestine), Amarin, but I'm going to have to call you on saying that Iraq was an ok place before we showed up.  Human Rights Watch spoke of genocide when talking about Saddam Hussein, and mass graves are being exhumed even as we sit here typing.  It was an absolutely hellish place, and Iraqis are better off with him gone. 

[! B L U E WAR R I O R..!]

Back at you, bluetooth.

I just wish people would educate themselves more on what is really happening in the world. Read some relatively unbiased history, or try to get both sides at the very least. Watch or read some non-American news sometime. Sadly, most people barely even watch the evening local news, let alone attempt to get another perspective on things. I think we need to be instilling this kind of open-mindedness and curiosity about the world at an early age. Kids are naturally curious about things, and our current school system does everything possible to squelch that curiosity. And of course, we're seeing the effect of that today.

What's so sad about Iraq is that it was really quite a developed country. It has such a rich history of intellect and achievement, and even women were far more liberated under Saddam than they are currently under our good buddies, the Saudis.

What's even sadder is that GentleTim is right, the blacks in Sudan are at least as bad off as the Iraqis, as are the Palestinians (especially in Gaza), the Angolans, and so many more that never make the evening news (I'm sure cynics among us could come up with a number of probably correct reasons for this).

When was the last time you heard about northern Uganda? Literally tens of thousands of kids have been kidnapped and not only subject to incredible violence, they're forced to become soldiers themselves. Think about how grown men came back from Vietnam horribly damaged, physically and mentally. Now imagine an 8-year-old who went through the same thing. What do you think that's going to do to their society when those kids grow up?  THIS is the kind of humanitarian crisis that the US should be intervening in, not some second-rate dictator who pretends to have WMDs to impress his neighbors.

Sorry for the length, clearly this topic gets me going.

I'll back you up on all of those spots (though I suspect we'd have some disagreement about the situation in Palestine), Amarin, but I'm going to have to call you on saying that Iraq was an ok place before we showed up. Human Rights Watch spoke of genocide when talking about Saddam Hussein, and mass graves are being exhumed even as we sit here typing. It was an absolutely hellish place, and Iraqis are better off with him gone.

some people forget about the "kurds" this culture is struggling for existance in many parts of the indus valley...iraq...iran...turkey ...caucasia...this culture is happy that hussain's children are dead...

[! B L U E WAR R I O R..!]

some people forget about the "kurds" this culture is struggling for existance in many parts of the indus valley...iraq...iran...turkey ...caucasia...this culture is happy that hussain's children are dead...

Also true. They're the ones that Saddam gassed (with American money and tacit blessing). I believe they are the largest ethnic group in the world without a state.

well, let's just say that the credits in your pocket today might have once been in hussain's children's pockets at one time...you didn't pay him...did you? but it wasn't american money it was iraqi dinars and aye believe the hussain's had their own money...remember the palaces?

but they are happy hussain's children are dead...because money did not kill them...people killed them...and those people are dead and others have been called out.
the tacit blessing is from the dead kurds' families and their slaughtered children.

ask some of them.  you seem intelligent...find out about their history.

and the kurds are a culture of people...please let's not get bogged down with the "ethnicity" label.  200 or 300 yrs from now...if the human race is still around...they will look back at us and say that our labels...like "ethnicity" were a "cognitive delusion of our era ."