Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Why is Andrew unemployed?  (Read 3977 times)

Matthew_24_24

  • Guest
Why is Andrew unemployed?
« on: October 08, 2004, 01:23:39 AM »
Why are you unemployed?

Did you finish bad in your class?

Matt

TDPookie1

  • Global Moderator
  • LSD Obsessed
  • ****
  • Posts: 8078
  • the sugar cane is back!
    • AOL Instant Messenger - PookieEsq2B
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Site will be down for a few minutes tonight
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2004, 02:12:35 AM »
Why are you unemployed?

Did you finish bad in your class?

Matt

1. you're an ass.

2. in the US, esp in this economy, it's hard to get a job before you have (successful) bar results in hand.
i am officially the biggest nerd of LSD!  ::gleaming with pride, as i shine my yoda trophy::

http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=TDPookie1

accepted at yale.  how the hell did i pull this one off?

inthesun

  • Guest
Re: Site will be down for a few minutes tonight
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2004, 02:13:25 AM »
Why are you unemployed?

Did you finish bad in your class?

Matt

MATT!!!  This is why no one voted for you on the LSD bf thread!   >:(

Andrew

  • Sr. Citizen
  • Posts: 742
  • "I just think the thing should work properly."
    • View Profile
    • Andrew Sinclair
Re: Site will be down for a few minutes tonight
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2004, 10:10:36 AM »
No, I didn't "finish bad".  A couple points / answers:

1) At my law school, and I suspect others, people don't tend to talk about grades.  Some people get pretty offended by people asking about or talking about grades.  Such discussion never bothered me, but I'm putting you on notice - it's a touchy subject for many - even those that did very well.

2) I attribute my lack of employment to a bad hiring economy.  I'd estimate that about 1/3 of my class got summer associate jobs of some sort and thus had a position lined up upon graduation.  For the rest of us it's been really hard.  My grades are good - probably above average (there's no way to tell), but shy of the top 1/3 of the class.

3) Where you "finish" in the class has little weight in the job search.  The big firms do almost all of their hiring through their summer associate programs.  They interview for those jobs at the beginning of the second year.  By practice, the only thing important to those firms is one's first-year grades.  So it's entirely possible (and common) for the people who have jobs at big firms to be in the middle or bottom of the class upon graduation.

The natural line of advice from this is that you should do everything possible to do well your first year.  It's pointless to give such advice in a large setting like this board.  Because class rank is relative, it's logically impossible for all you to do well your first year.

4) The big firm summer associate jobs are the only jobs that, logistically speaking, are easy to get.  There's a system in place.  That's why you hear about those jobs so much.  The reality is that it's not even the majority of students that get those jobs.  Everyone else is left to find whatever they can - and many look to small firms, government, and public interest.  That's why the median salary for private practice at BU is so high.  They bend the stats to sound better.  A $125k median private practice salary just means that, of the people that had jobs at the time of the survey (graduation?), half +1 of those in private practice were at big firms.

It sounds like the average student got a $125k job, but that's not true.

5) People have been asking me about my employment situation a lot lately.  I suppose I invited that by my little "unemployed with JD" caption.  Please realize that my class year (2004) is truly where the hiring economy hit bottom.  The class before mine didn't do that well either, but they did a little better.  The class behind mine seems to be doing better.  I don't mean to be a pessimist.  I have faith that I'll find a good job that I'll enjoy, and I think those of you starting law school soon will find a positive change in circumstance from what I've been describing.


Wow - long post - but what else do I have to do today?  hahaha

buster

  • Guest
Re: Site will be down for a few minutes tonight
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2004, 10:18:03 AM »
Thanks for the candor, I'm sure many (including myself) have been curious and this was an interesting post. I chuckled at the first line, BTW.


No, I didn't "finish bad".  A couple points / answers:

1) At my law school, and I suspect others, people don't tend to talk about grades.  Some people get pretty offended by people asking about or talking about grades.  Such discussion never bothered me, but I'm putting you on notice - it's a touchy subject for many - even those that did very well.

2) I attribute my lack of employment to a bad hiring economy.  I'd estimate that about 1/3 of my class got summer associate jobs of some sort and thus had a position lined up upon graduation.  For the rest of us it's been really hard.  My grades are good - probably above average (there's no way to tell), but shy of the top 1/3 of the class.

3) Where you "finish" in the class has little weight in the job search.  The big firms do almost all of their hiring through their summer associate programs.  They interview for those jobs at the beginning of the second year.  By practice, the only thing important to those firms is one's first-year grades.  So it's entirely possible (and common) for the people who have jobs at big firms to be in the middle or bottom of the class upon graduation.

The natural line of advice from this is that you should do everything possible to do well your first year.  It's pointless to give such advice in a large setting like this board.  Because class rank is relative, it's logically impossible for all you to do well your first year.

4) The big firm summer associate jobs are the only jobs that, logistically speaking, are easy to get.  There's a system in place.  That's why you hear about those jobs so much.  The reality is that it's not even the majority of students that get those jobs.  Everyone else is left to find whatever they can - and many look to small firms, government, and public interest.  That's why the median salary for private practice at BU is so high.  They bend the stats to sound better.  A $125k median private practice salary just means that, of the people that had jobs at the time of the survey (graduation?), half +1 of those in private practice were at big firms.

It sounds like the average student got a $125k job, but that's not true.

5) People have been asking me about my employment situation a lot lately.  I suppose I invited that by my little "unemployed with JD" caption.  Please realize that my class year (2004) is truly where the hiring economy hit bottom.  The class before mine didn't do that well either, but they did a little better.  The class behind mine seems to be doing better.  I don't mean to be a pessimist.  I have faith that I'll find a good job that I'll enjoy, and I think those of you starting law school soon will find a positive change in circumstance from what I've been describing.


Wow - long post - but what else do I have to do today?  hahaha

buster

  • Guest
Re: Site will be down for a few minutes tonight
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2004, 10:20:48 AM »
Concise and accurate. Pookie, you're on top of things as usual.

1. you're an ass.

mukhia

  • Guest
Re: Why is Andrew unemployed?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2004, 10:30:16 AM »
I know how it feels (sort of).  Prior to graduating UG, I was swamped with job offers from all over and after graduation I had a cushy job lined up.  Then all of a sudden, I was laid off before I even started and it took much longer than I had expected or wanted to find another job.  Very scary and a good reminder for me to be less complacent and arrogant about such matters!  Thanks for keeping us down to earth, Andrew and good luck! 

nathanielmark

  • Guest
Re: Why is Andrew unemployed?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2004, 10:39:22 AM »
this is the reason i would consider foregoing a highly ranked school in favor of a tier 1 school with in-state tuition... in a worst case scenario, i would rather have a bad job with my JD and no debt load then a bad job, a JD, and about $700 a month in student loan payments.

jgomez

  • Guest
Re: Site will be down for a few minutes tonight
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2004, 04:34:34 PM »
It sounds like the average student got a $125k job, but that's not true.

I think this is a misconception that many pre law students have on this board.  That everyone will come out making the big 6 figure salary. 

TDPookie1

  • Global Moderator
  • LSD Obsessed
  • ****
  • Posts: 8078
  • the sugar cane is back!
    • AOL Instant Messenger - PookieEsq2B
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Site will be down for a few minutes tonight
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2004, 05:35:42 PM »
Why are you unemployed?

Did you finish bad in your class?

Matt

1. you're an ass.

2. in the US, esp in this economy, it's hard to get a job before you have (successful) bar results in hand.

Andrew, was I right about this?  (I am referring to point #2, assuming that you won't confirm that Matthew is an ass :) )  Or is my assumption negated by people getting jobs through summer associateships?

My sister graduated from USC in 2001.  She didn't want to stay at the firm where she worked after 2L and was unable to get a job until January.  Bar results came in November, she sent out her resume to at least 300 firms, and interviews seemed to start at the beginning of the new year.
i am officially the biggest nerd of LSD!  ::gleaming with pride, as i shine my yoda trophy::

http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=TDPookie1

accepted at yale.  how the hell did i pull this one off?