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Author Topic: How important is your law school  (Read 4152 times)

jgruber

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Re: How important is your law school
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2004, 01:31:15 PM »
Actually legal research is starting to be outsourced.  Anyone who can read english can do legal research. 

I read an article somewhere about West outsourcing legal analysis or court reports or something like that to India.

HighPSI

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Re: How important is your law school
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2004, 09:02:16 PM »
Two things in the legal industry's favor regarding outsourcing.  #1 The majority of people in legislative positions are lawyers.  They'll be the most reluctant to pass legislation to encourage or allow outsourcing of legal work.  #2 Actually practicing law requires things that can't be outsourced: People and communication skills, a professional license that is State by State dependent, and a great dependancy on collaboration with others in many aspects of the work.  Even something highly technical, like IP work, can't be outsourced.  Having filed many patents, I can tell you that it involves a lot back and forth communication to explain the innovations, work out filing strategy, and revise the documents.  That's not going to be accomplished any time soon by people living in time zones that are entirely incompatible with schedules in the U.S.  Even in the software development process, the only outsourcing we used was for Q/A work where we could blast code over at the end of the day and get results back the next morning.  I could see something similar for mundane legal research, but anything that requires JD level analysis is staying here IMO.

Another thing to think about is the perspective of the corporate client.  Not many companes would be thrilled to have even legal research on matters pertaining to their confidential business being fired over the wire and handled by a foreign 3rd party whose local laws and actual ability to enforce may offer very little protection should someone on their end decide it's profittable to market the information.

thechoson

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Re: How important is your law school
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2004, 09:07:40 PM »
TOTALLY agree with Reasoning number 2, not so with number one.  Congressmen will pass laws that get them reelected, whether they were lawyers or not.  Once you are in congress, your ass as a politician is on the line, not as a lawyer.  Lawyers losing their jobs is not going to get much sympathy from constituents.  But yea, I agree with your overall argument because of number 2.

HighPSI

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Re: How important is your law school
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2004, 09:19:04 PM »
TOTALLY agree with Reasoning number 2, not so with number one.  Congressmen will pass laws that get them reelected, whether they were lawyers or not.  Once you are in congress, your ass as a politician is on the line, not as a lawyer.  Lawyers losing their jobs is not going to get much sympathy from constituents.  But yea, I agree with your overall argument because of number 2.

I agree that my #1 reason is very subjective.  However, one only has to examine the lack of progress with Tort reform in this country to realize that the legal industry has an incredibly effective way of getting their needs taken care of in Congress.  Now, that can cut 2-ways, exisiting parterners might see their profit sharing increase if they can cut cost through outsourcing, so they might want it.  However, given how risk averse lawyers are, I see them calculating the liability # in their head if some major client is screwed over by someone in a foreign country.

DaBoo

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Re: How important is your law school
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2004, 09:39:07 PM »
Almost all legal work can be outsourced, and don't think that there isn't someone in each of the big law firms or large publishing houses examining the risk/benefit ratio of outsourcing associates and analysts right now. Big business does not discriminate between time-zones when it means more profit.

That said, I think that there is a check on this system. Most Americans would not want to be represented (or, especially, prosecuted) by a non-American in court, and most would not want non-Americans directly involved with the creation of the laws that dictate how an American can lead his/her life.

Plus, at least for the near future, there is a double standard about outsourcing. To keep prices low on goods, it's generally acceptable to outsource blue-collar jobs. However, politicians want to keep white-collar votes, since they can make or break an election, so it is not politically viable to encourage outsourcing of white-collar workers ... that theory, at least, prevents mass-outsourcing of attorneys (for now).
Sometimes we must interfere. When human [...] dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant. Whenever men or women are persecuted because of their race, religion, or political views, that place must-at that moment-become the center of the universe."
- Wiesel

thechoson

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Re: How important is your law school
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2004, 09:42:59 PM »
But outsourcing has been going on for decades.  The REASON it is such a hot topic right now is because white collar jobs ARE being outsourced.  That scares people, and makes people wonder whether the legal field could also be subject to outsourcing.  I also don't agree with people not wanting to be represented by a non-American.  Where do you exactly draw the line there?  I am a minority, would you not want to be represented by me, though I consider myself an American?  How would I be different from some dude in another country that speaks perfect English and has a solid grasp of American laws?  Personally, I would want somebody to represent me that can win my case.  Pure and simple, I don't care if it's a  talking ape.

Revenant

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Re: How important is your law school
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2004, 10:51:44 PM »
But outsourcing has been going on for decades.  The REASON it is such a hot topic right now is because white collar jobs ARE being outsourced.  That scares people, and makes people wonder whether the legal field could also be subject to outsourcing.  I also don't agree with people not wanting to be represented by a non-American.  Where do you exactly draw the line there?  I am a minority, would you not want to be represented by me, though I consider myself an American?  How would I be different from some dude in another country that speaks perfect English and has a solid grasp of American laws?  Personally, I would want somebody to represent me that can win my case.  Pure and simple, I don't care if it's a  talking ape.

I'd probably draw the line at the fact that you actually live here in the US.  If something goes wrong, accountability at the very least seems more available with an attorney in the States than someone overseas. =P

DaBoo

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Re: How important is your law school
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2004, 11:12:43 PM »
I'd probably draw the line at the fact that you actually live here in the US.  If something goes wrong, accountability at the very least seems more available with an attorney in the States than someone overseas. =P

Exactly. Maybe it won't be a factor, since many people don't have a choice about who represents them.

And I was not trying to attack anyone of any background. Americans have a hard enough time trusting their own when it comes to the legal system, and so I do think that this would be a concern for many who are in court. I'm NOT saying, however, that American law cannot be practiced equally as well by an American as a non-American. And I am definitely NOT saying that minorities are not great lawyers. If I had to chose an attorney, I would look at a person's resume, not his or her race.

Plus, I have definitely met many people who would rather be represented by a talking ape rather than a competent foreign attorney. It sucks, but it is a possible factor.

Do you think we will ever outsource judges or juries? That makes this hypothetical even more interesting ...  ;) I think many people see their choice of attorney like the choice in jury members -- they want someone who is a peer (i.e. -- has a shared experience or the ability to have a shared experience).
Sometimes we must interfere. When human [...] dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant. Whenever men or women are persecuted because of their race, religion, or political views, that place must-at that moment-become the center of the universe."
- Wiesel

thechoson

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Re: How important is your law school
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2004, 11:15:33 PM »
I am way not smart enough to explain this, but I also think it has something to do with our system of laws and our legal system.  Kind of hard to outsource legal jobs.

DaBoo

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Re: How important is your law school
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2004, 11:20:56 PM »
I am way not smart enough to explain this, but I also think it has something to do with our system of laws and our legal system.  Kind of hard to outsource legal jobs.

Trust me, it's easier than you think. I've had some first-hand experience with it.

However, public interest is generally where I think the line is and will be drawn. Public defenders and the like won't be outsourced. Big firm work, however, is another story.
Sometimes we must interfere. When human [...] dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant. Whenever men or women are persecuted because of their race, religion, or political views, that place must-at that moment-become the center of the universe."
- Wiesel