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Author Topic: ITT 1L's give 0L's suggestions for next year  (Read 22210 times)

The Artist

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Re: ITT 1L's give 0L's suggestions for next year
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2008, 05:45:53 PM »
This is based only on my experience.

T14 exams aren't the "Here's 2 pages of facts! Spot all the issues! Write all the rules! Apply! Go!"  The exams are predominately take-homes and more narrowly focused on fully developing arguments on just a few "issues."  And at least 30-40% of all of my exams have been theory, critical analysis of normative principles, or public policy. If you don't like that, you may be in trouble. 

I don't know who came up with the "outline" imperative, but all the 1Ls "ooh" and "aah" over the mystical power of outlining.  I was skeptical, but decided to "OUTLINE" BECAUSE EVERYONE DOES IT!!!  What a terrible idea.  All I know is that for my classes combined, I've spent hours and hours and hours typing up well over 200 pages of crap and used my outline on one exam.  I didn't "outline" in undergrad and did just fine, and I'm not doing another damn outline for a class that I have a take-home exam in.

If your exam is an in-class exam, just write something useful to you.  If not, don't bother.  And what are people doing in the library with flash cards?  Simple memorization will not help you at all.

My guess is you are at Chicago? They tend to be the most policy heavy.

Susan B. Anthony

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Re: ITT 1L's give 0L's suggestions for next year
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2008, 06:11:41 PM »
With respect to outlining, much of the usefulness is in the process, not in the actual document produced. It's a method of reviewing and reengaging with the material in a systematic way. That said, I don't find it all that useful - it's more helpful for me to study in other ways.


Astro

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Re: ITT 1L's give 0L's suggestions for next year
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2008, 06:12:56 PM »
This is based only on my experience.

T14 exams aren't the "Here's 2 pages of facts! Spot all the issues! Write all the rules! Apply! Go!"  The exams are predominately take-homes and more narrowly focused on fully developing arguments on just a few "issues."  And at least 30-40% of all of my exams have been theory, critical analysis of normative principles, or public policy. If you don't like that, you may be in trouble. 

I don't know who came up with the "outline" imperative, but all the 1Ls "ooh" and "aah" over the mystical power of outlining.  I was skeptical, but decided to "OUTLINE" BECAUSE EVERYONE DOES IT!!!  What a terrible idea.  All I know is that for my classes combined, I've spent hours and hours and hours typing up well over 200 pages of crap and used my outline on one exam.  I didn't "outline" in undergrad and did just fine, and I'm not doing another damn outline for a class that I have a take-home exam in.

If your exam is an in-class exam, just write something useful to you.  If not, don't bother.  And what are people doing in the library with flash cards?  Simple memorization will not help you at all.


Depends.  We have closed book exams with large fact patterns at my school.  You need to have memorized most of the black letter law to be able to spot and manipulate all of the issues.  That said, simply memorizing without understanding or organizing things in a manner that's comfortable and sensible to you is absolutely useless.

The outline is for APPLICATION, not regurgitation.  Always remember that.  (Obviously, that's aimed at everyone else, not the poster I'm responding to.)
J, if you didn't bring enough penis for everyone, you shouldn't have brought any penis at all. 

Astro

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Re: ITT 1L's give 0L's suggestions for next year
« Reply #53 on: April 21, 2008, 06:13:40 PM »
A bit of a warning on the "avoiding the group panic."  Definitely avoid the group panic.  But people seem to get really annoyed if you're NOT panicked. Maybe they just think you're a slacker who has bad grades?  Or maybe they think you're bragging about how smart you are that you don't need to study? Or they think you're sandbagging? Exams make some people nutty.

So next semester I'll still just go do fun stuff; I just won't tell them about it.

Word to this.
J, if you didn't bring enough penis for everyone, you shouldn't have brought any penis at all. 

Special Agent Dana Scully

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Re: ITT 1L's give 0L's suggestions for next year
« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2008, 06:23:06 PM »
This is based only on my experience.

T14 exams aren't the "Here's 2 pages of facts! Spot all the issues! Write all the rules! Apply! Go!"  The exams are predominately take-homes and more narrowly focused on fully developing arguments on just a few "issues."  And at least 30-40% of all of my exams have been theory, critical analysis of normative principles, or public policy. If you don't like that, you may be in trouble. 

I don't know who came up with the "outline" imperative, but all the 1Ls "ooh" and "aah" over the mystical power of outlining.  I was skeptical, but decided to "OUTLINE" BECAUSE EVERYONE DOES IT!!!  What a terrible idea.  All I know is that for my classes combined, I've spent hours and hours and hours typing up well over 200 pages of crap and used my outline on one exam.  I didn't "outline" in undergrad and did just fine, and I'm not doing another damn outline for a class that I have a take-home exam in.

If your exam is an in-class exam, just write something useful to you.  If not, don't bother.  And what are people doing in the library with flash cards?  Simple memorization will not help you at all.

my exams so far have been issue spotters--only my civ pro exam had a policy q.

i've looked at some crim exams for my prof--and his last exam had a 10 page hypo
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Astro

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Re: ITT 1L's give 0L's suggestions for next year
« Reply #55 on: April 21, 2008, 06:50:51 PM »
Hm.  I guess the exam-giving culture at some schools just slants more towards theory and scholarly-lawyerly analysis.  Or maybe it's just my professors.  Something 0Ls should ask around about at the school, I guess. 

I agree.  It varies substantially -- find out from 2Ls and 3Ls at your prospective school.
J, if you didn't bring enough penis for everyone, you shouldn't have brought any penis at all. 

skeeball

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Re: ITT 1L's give 0L's suggestions for next year
« Reply #56 on: April 21, 2008, 09:57:38 PM »
"Outlining" is a catch-all term for whatever you make to help yourself study for exams. It doesn't have to actually be an outline. I like outlines because that's how I think.

I think memorizing is a good idea. The one exam I did the best on last semester was the one where I sat down and made myself commit sections of my outline to memory. It's not that you're going to regurgitate all over the exam, it just helps you make sure you hit all the points and don't leave things out.

As for the group panic: don't be the a-hole bragging about how much time you spend studying in your Facebook status. And if you want to have friends 2nd semester, don't use it to tell the world about your awesome grades or the big law summer job you landed.

skeeball

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Re: ITT 1L's give 0L's suggestions for next year
« Reply #57 on: April 21, 2008, 10:21:19 PM »
Agreed on the grades.  I don't know anyone's grades, and nobody knows mine.  It's very nice.

There's not telling people what your grades are, and then there's a facebook status that say "Grades are up and I can't believe my eyes...I must be dreaming!!!"

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Re: ITT 1L's give 0L's suggestions for next year
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2008, 01:04:34 AM »
my advice to you is to start drinking heavily

Special Agent Dana Scully

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Re: ITT 1L's give 0L's suggestions for next year
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2008, 01:13:46 AM »
my advice to you is to start drinking heavily

people always give me a stunned look when i tell them i'm not a big drinker...ie, IF i drink (and that's a big if), it's something weak like an ameretto sour.  when i say i don't drink wine, ppl give me a confused look.
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