Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Poll

yay or nay?  yes, this is heteronormative, i know i know.

a. yay
 46 (74.2%)
b. nay
 16 (25.8%)

Total Members Voted: 61

Author Topic: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage  (Read 20912 times)

jack24

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #110 on: April 10, 2008, 01:53:52 PM »
Right. So you don't respect my opinion. Why don't you just say so?

Word game... whatever.

Trivium

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #111 on: April 10, 2008, 01:54:56 PM »


ETA: but really, most of what I've said hasn't been about parenting, but rather about conceptions and misconceptions about gender identity and gender roles.

Exactly. Your point here does nto require being a parent. It just requires holding a particular viewpoint about females and males, specifically, that these qualities may be based in social constructions. That view informs your view on parenting.

MahlerGrooves

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #112 on: April 10, 2008, 01:55:28 PM »
This is becoming round 2 of that "white privilege " thread with people misinterpreting Cady and Dash.  Oy.

jack24

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #113 on: April 10, 2008, 01:56:04 PM »

Isn't it somehow possible that she knows herself, he abilities and her desires better than you ever could, and would know that experimenting with a human life to gain that experience would be detrimental?

Yes it's possible.
Good point.

Isn't it possible that she's looked at parents from the eyes of a person who wants to shake a baby when it cries?
Don't you think here opinions would be biased toward selfishness?

nike6075

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #114 on: April 10, 2008, 01:56:34 PM »

Some men, yes. Some men, no. Also, some women yes, some women, no. I don't see a difference in parenting skills between men and women. Generally, people are people and the degree of parenting skills they have is generally a result of the type of person they are.

You, my friend, are Naive.  I appreciate what you are saying, but I'm afraid most children can see a SIGNIFICANT difference in the way they are treated by their mothers and fathers.

The most important point is that having two loving and involved parents is the best situation for a child.


Seeing a difference doesn't mean there are inevitable differences.

It means that men aren't taught to be caregivers, or expected to be caregivers, in the same way women are. And your thinking perpetuates that cycle.

Why can't there be genetic differences?

It's not an end-all, be-all just to say that women are genetically predisposed to parenting on a fundamental level that men aren't.  We're not monkeys, but it's been proven time and time again that evolutionary aspects built into our DNA are subconscious drivers in the decisions we make on a daily basis - from which food to eat, how much money to save, and who we pick as our mate.  Stop making this a 'either men are just as good at parenting or women should stay in the kitchen' situation - it's not.
dont worry guys, i had lotsof drinks, and now i feel better. hth.

Susan B. Anthony

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #115 on: April 10, 2008, 01:57:09 PM »
Right. So you don't respect my opinion. Why don't you just say so?

Word game... whatever.


Not a word game. One is condescending, the other is honest.

Also please see my latest edit.

Oh whatever, I'll reproduce it here:

ETA again: WTF, yo? I cant know things/have thoughts about parenting because I don't want kids? PLEASE. I was parented. I've watched friends be parented, and parent. I have young cousins who are more like nieces and nephews. There are children whose lives I am invested in. I'm generally invested in children everywhere growing up in a supportive and healthy environment. For christ's sake. Just because I don't want to squeeze a baby out of my vagina I'm not capable of thinking critically about these things??

jack24

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #116 on: April 10, 2008, 01:58:20 PM »
This is becoming round 2 of that "white privilege " thread with people misinterpreting Cady and Dash.  Oy.

I don't think I've misinterpreted them.   I do think that a lot of people are jumping to conclusions about me.

I think that gender roles are good for society, and that maintaining them doesn't mean that women will be oppressed.  



Susan B. Anthony

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #117 on: April 10, 2008, 02:00:38 PM »

Some men, yes. Some men, no. Also, some women yes, some women, no. I don't see a difference in parenting skills between men and women. Generally, people are people and the degree of parenting skills they have is generally a result of the type of person they are.

You, my friend, are Naive.  I appreciate what you are saying, but I'm afraid most children can see a SIGNIFICANT difference in the way they are treated by their mothers and fathers.

The most important point is that having two loving and involved parents is the best situation for a child.


Seeing a difference doesn't mean there are inevitable differences.

It means that men aren't taught to be caregivers, or expected to be caregivers, in the same way women are. And your thinking perpetuates that cycle.

Why can't there be genetic differences?

It's not an end-all, be-all just to say that women are genetically predisposed to parenting on a fundamental level that men aren't.  We're not monkeys, but it's been proven time and time again that evolutionary aspects built into our DNA are subconscious drivers in the decisions we make on a daily basis - from which food to eat, how much money to save, and who we pick as our mate.  Stop making this a 'either men are just as good at parenting or women should stay in the kitchen' situation - it's not.

. . .

I haven't done that.

Thanks for playing, though.

FTR, based on the study I've done of gender through both scientific and sociological lenses, yes, there are some differences. I won't deny that, and I think if you actually read my posts without dismissing me as a hysterical feminist you'd get that. But those differences are intensely magnified by socialization and societal expectation, and do not preclude men from being equally as effective parents as women.

jack24

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #118 on: April 10, 2008, 02:01:18 PM »
Right. So you don't respect my opinion. Why don't you just say so?

Word game... whatever.


Not a word game. One is condescending, the other is honest.

Also please see my latest edit.

Oh whatever, I'll reproduce it here:

ETA again: WTF, yo? I cant know things/have thoughts about parenting because I don't want kids? PLEASE. I was parented. I've watched friends be parented, and parent. I have young cousins who are more like nieces and nephews. There are children whose lives I am invested in. I'm generally invested in children everywhere growing up in a supportive and healthy environment. For christ's sake. Just because I don't want to squeeze a baby out of my vagina I'm not capable of thinking critically about these things??

You can think critically about these things.  I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

Either way, you seem to not want kids because you don't want to deal with them.
Your point of view may be valid, but it's still seems like it grows out of selfishness.  

nike6075

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #119 on: April 10, 2008, 02:04:03 PM »

Some men, yes. Some men, no. Also, some women yes, some women, no. I don't see a difference in parenting skills between men and women. Generally, people are people and the degree of parenting skills they have is generally a result of the type of person they are.

You, my friend, are Naive.  I appreciate what you are saying, but I'm afraid most children can see a SIGNIFICANT difference in the way they are treated by their mothers and fathers.

The most important point is that having two loving and involved parents is the best situation for a child.


Seeing a difference doesn't mean there are inevitable differences.

It means that men aren't taught to be caregivers, or expected to be caregivers, in the same way women are. And your thinking perpetuates that cycle.

Why can't there be genetic differences?

It's not an end-all, be-all just to say that women are genetically predisposed to parenting on a fundamental level that men aren't.  We're not monkeys, but it's been proven time and time again that evolutionary aspects built into our DNA are subconscious drivers in the decisions we make on a daily basis - from which food to eat, how much money to save, and who we pick as our mate.  Stop making this a 'either men are just as good at parenting or women should stay in the kitchen' situation - it's not.

. . .

I haven't done that.

Thanks for playing, though.

FTR, based on the study I've done of gender through both scientific and sociological lenses, yes, there are some differences. I won't deny that, and I think if you actually read my posts without dismissing me as a hysterical feminist you'd get that. But those differences are intensely magnified by socialization and societal expectation, and do not preclude men from being equally as effective parents as women.

That's exactly what i just said.  So thank you for reiterating my point.
dont worry guys, i had lotsof drinks, and now i feel better. hth.