Girl taking guy's last name after marriage

[yay or nay? yes, this is heteronormative, i know i know.]

yay or nay?  yes, this is heteronormative, i know i know.

a. yay

 46 (74.2%)

b. nay

 16 (25.8%)

Total Members Voted: 61

[Susan B. Anthony]

I do not in fact want to be a mommy.

When I hear a baby crying, I get the urge to shake something.

Good maternal instincts there, eh?

Furthermore, not wanting any spawn of mine in daycare (which, imo, doesn't have to be bad) doesn't mean that I would need to stay home and care for it.

Okay, thanks for the honesty.
You don't want kids.
I respect your opinions but I don't think you know what the hell you're talking about.
If you don't want kids then your arguments are based on what is good for you.  I'm making arguments based on what I believe will be the best for my future children. 

. . .

right

ok then

hope you don't @#!* them up too much

ETA: if you don't think I have any idea what I'm talking about, then you clearly don't respect my opinion. If you do respect my opinion even though you think I'm a clueless @#!*, then you're an idiot. You may respect my right to have an opinion while still thinking I'm a clueless @#!*, but I doubt you respect the actual opinion.

[nike6075]

I love how, every time this argument starts, it ends up being the progressive/feminist women who end up shouting "MEN ARE JUST AS GOOD AT TAKING CARE OF CHILDREN AS WOMEN ARE." And then guys say "NO WE'RE NOT."  It's very interesting that, on certain issues, women are so concerned about being 'equal to' or 'the same' as men that they would rather refuse than accept a leading role.

So wanting a man to be involved in their children's lives has now become passing off responsibility to someone else?  Nice!

No.  Complete misread.

[Trivium]

Come on.  I said that there were some exceptions. But generally, I don't care if it's genetics, or experience or tradition.  If men and women suddenly switched roles you'd have a huge increase of crap-filled diapers, and toddler concussions.

If we're going to accept that statement, then I suppose women being crappier drivers, less intelligent, etc. are all true as well.

Ooooh good one.  Rather than arguing directly with my point you came up with a completely unrelated example.
Do you really think that the majority of men have the instincts, experience, desire, and patience to do as good of a job as women?  

Its not really that unrelated, the same principle is at issue. If you're willing to accept the fact that women are genetically predisposed to being better parents, then you would have to be willing to at least accept the possibility that women are genetically inferior in some ways, examples being intelligence, driving, etc.

Possible - why not?  In practice, I'd say it's perhaps the opposite.  Women receive lower insurance rates than men because they're less likely to drive in such a way that would make the insurance companies have to pay out on claims.  Does this mean that actuaries are sexist?

I meant these more as conventional wisdoms about inborn differences between men and women.

[jack24]

Some men, yes. Some men, no. Also, some women yes, some women, no. I don't see a difference in parenting skills between men and women. Generally, people are people and the degree of parenting skills they have is generally a result of the type of person they are.

You, my friend, are Naive.  I appreciate what you are saying, but I'm afraid most children can see a SIGNIFICANT difference in the way they are treated by their mothers and fathers.

The most important point is that having two loving and involved parents is the best situation for a child.

[TNGA60]

Man, bud. I would really suggest you not get into it with me, especially with the cute little grammar lesson, which absolutely shows your ass with regard to your original point about yelling on a message board, for the rather obvious reason that, as Cady noted, common usage is that caps are used for shouting, and exclamation points are used for, well, would you look at that, Lord have mercy, I'll be darned, exclamations, e.g., "Wowzers! You're spectacularly dumb!"

As for your high-and-mighty perch w/r/t your poor sister, I'll not delve too deeply into the dynamics here, but suffice it to say that I would put cold hard cash on the fact that she doesn't "value your opinion" about how much she screwed up nearly as much as you think she does. Friendly hint from me to you--gratis.

You're welcome!

!

!

Wow, I feel so exhilarated from all that yelling exclaiming. 

Your patronizing is quite humorous. With you tremendous psychoanalytic abilities maybe you should try and figure out why you look down on unwed mothers so much. 

Everything I know about your sister's situation, I got from your post, and anything you've read into my "opinion" on the subject, you should know that I was parroting your tone in that post. I'd suggest you try to figure out why you look down on unwed mothers so much.

omg you're right I should not have started with you
::cowers in your superior intellect::

First off, I never said my sister f'd up, you did. I simply stated that her current situation was less than ideal. I made no comment as to how or why she had a child. You filled in the blanks with your wonderful imagination.

[mbw]

So let me get this straight...

You don't deny that strong families are essential to society.
You don't think theres anything wrong with a woman staying home if it's her choice

So do you think a family is stronger if a woman stays home?  Or do you think that has nothing to do with it?

I think each situation is different, and each decision should be made based on the best benefit to the children. I'm not going to short-sell a man for potentially being a stronger parent than his wife who could be more successful as a breadwinner, and I'm not going to discount a more "traditional" family if the roles were to fit that way. But each person should have a choice, and not a predetermined role they are to play based on gender and not necessarily on ability.

Maybe some situations are different, but women are better caregivers and they will always be better caregivers.  I don't know if it's the estrogen, or the whole breast-feeding issue.
I don't know why men are genetically designed to be better hunters.

Well, I stopped BFing my kids by 3, and never realized that now my caregiving skills have lessened.  It's all about the unmentionables, eh?

But really.  There's nothing inherently female about good parenting.  On many levels, my spouse's caregiving skills surpass my own.  Frankly, I think we've been only able to raise our four kids together, two of whom have profound special needs (autism) because we compliment each other, parenting-wise.  I would never be able to do this alone, and frankly, when we tried the traditional wife at home, husband at work 9-5, I ended up on depression meds rather quickly. 

Geez, I can't believe we're still having this conversation in 2008.  I honestly held out hope that the next generation of women would have it better than I did, but listening to some of the men here, if feels like we've gone backwards, not forwards.  I just hope that it's not representative of the real world.

[Susan B. Anthony]

Some men, yes. Some men, no. Also, some women yes, some women, no. I don't see a difference in parenting skills between men and women. Generally, people are people and the degree of parenting skills they have is generally a result of the type of person they are.

You, my friend, are Naive.  I appreciate what you are saying, but I'm afraid most children can see a SIGNIFICANT difference in the way they are treated by their mothers and fathers.

The most important point is that having two loving and involved parents is the best situation for a child.

Seeing a difference doesn't mean there are inevitable differences.

It means that men aren't taught to be caregivers, or expected to be caregivers, in the same way women are. And your thinking perpetuates that cycle.

[jack24]

I do not in fact want to be a mommy.

When I hear a baby crying, I get the urge to shake something.

Good maternal instincts there, eh?

Furthermore, not wanting any spawn of mine in daycare (which, imo, doesn't have to be bad) doesn't mean that I would need to stay home and care for it.

Okay, thanks for the honesty.
You don't want kids.
I respect your opinions but I don't think you know what the hell you're talking about.
If you don't want kids then your arguments are based on what is good for you.  I'm making arguments based on what I believe will be the best for my future children. 

. . .

right

ok then

hope you don't @#!* them up too much

ETA: if you don't think I have any idea what I'm talking about, then you clearly don't respect my opinion. If you do respect my opinion even though you think I'm a clueless @#!*, then you're an idiot. You may respect my right to have an opinion while still thinking I'm a clueless @#!*, but I doubt you respect the actual opinion.

I respect your opinions on parenting, the same way I respect a doctors opinion on law school.
Not only do you lack experience, but you lack the desire to gain experience

[Susan B. Anthony]

Right. So you don't respect my opinion. Why don't you just say so?

ETA: but really, most of what I've said hasn't been about parenting, but rather about conceptions and misconceptions about gender identity and gender roles.

ETA again: WTF, yo? I cant know things/have thoughts about parenting because I don't want kids? PLEASE. I was parented. I've watched friends be parented, and parent. I have young cousins who are more like nieces and nephews. There are children whose lives I am invested in. I'm generally invested in children everywhere growing up in a supportive and healthy environment. For christ's sake. Just because I don't want to squeeze a baby out of my vagina I'm not capable of thinking critically about these things??

[Trivium]

Some men, yes. Some men, no. Also, some women yes, some women, no. I don't see a difference in parenting skills between men and women. Generally, people are people and the degree of parenting skills they have is generally a result of the type of person they are.

You, my friend, are Naive.  I appreciate what you are saying, but I'm afraid most children can see a SIGNIFICANT difference in the way they are treated by their mothers and fathers.

The most important point is that having two loving and involved parents is the best situation for a child.

I agree fully on your last point. I do see a difference in how I was treated by my two parents, however, I see that difference as more of a social construction. They both came from traditional families where these norms are solidly enforced, so I learned manly values like responsibility, hard work, etc. from my dad while I picked up stuff like compassion and generosity from my mother. This is because that's how their parents treated them.