Girl taking guy's last name after marriage

[yay or nay? yes, this is heteronormative, i know i know.]

yay or nay?  yes, this is heteronormative, i know i know.

a. yay

 46 (74.2%)

b. nay

 16 (25.8%)

Total Members Voted: 61

[LHL]

I love how, every time this argument starts, it ends up being the progressive/feminist women who end up shouting "MEN ARE JUST AS GOOD AT TAKING CARE OF CHILDREN AS WOMEN ARE." And then guys say "NO WE'RE NOT."  It's very interesting that, on certain issues, women are so concerned about being 'equal to' or 'the same' as men that they would rather refuse than accept a leading role.

So wanting a man to be involved in their children's lives has now become passing off responsibility to someone else?  Nice!

[Trivium]

Come on.  I said that there were some exceptions. But generally, I don't care if it's genetics, or experience or tradition.  If men and women suddenly switched roles you'd have a huge increase of crap-filled diapers, and toddler concussions.

If we're going to accept that statement, then I suppose women being crappier drivers, less intelligent, etc. are all true as well.

Ooooh good one.  Rather than arguing directly with my point you came up with a completely unrelated example.
Do you really think that the majority of men have the instincts, experience, desire, and patience to do as good of a job as women?  

Its not really that unrelated, the same principle is at issue. If you're willing to accept the fact that women are genetically predisposed to being better parents, then you would have to be willing to at least accept the possibility that women are genetically inferior in some ways, examples being intelligence, driving, etc.

[jack24]

I love how, every time this argument starts, it ends up being the progressive/feminist women who end up shouting "MEN ARE JUST AS GOOD AT TAKING CARE OF CHILDREN AS WOMEN ARE." And then guys say "NO WE'RE NOT."  It's very interesting that, on certain issues, women are so concerned about being 'equal to' or 'the same' as men that they would rather refuse than accept a leading role.

OH! OH OH OH HEY FEMINISTS! LOOK! HERE'S AN AREA WE CAN SAY WE'RE BETTER THAN MEN, EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD UNDERMINE SO MANY THINGS ABOUT WHAT WE'VE BEEN SAYING! WE SHOULD SEIZE IT!

c'mon, dash!

Cady, don't you want to be a mommy some day?
If you do want to be a mommy, don't you think you'd be better at raising the kid than a daycare would be?

[nike6075]

I love how, every time this argument starts, it ends up being the progressive/feminist women who end up shouting "MEN ARE JUST AS GOOD AT TAKING CARE OF CHILDREN AS WOMEN ARE." And then guys say "NO WE'RE NOT."  It's very interesting that, on certain issues, women are so concerned about being 'equal to' or 'the same' as men that they would rather refuse than accept a leading role.

OH! OH OH OH HEY FEMINISTS! LOOK! HERE'S AN AREA WE CAN SAY WE'RE BETTER THAN MEN, EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD UNDERMINE SO MANY THINGS ABOUT WHAT WE'VE BEEN SAYING! WE SHOULD SEIZE IT!

c'mon, dash!

But why?  Why can't you just accept that men and women are different?  It doesn't mean that women should stay home with the children in every circumstance, or that the men have to be the breadwinners in every family - or even the large majority of them.  But there are differences, and to be blind to that is simply naive.

[jack24]

Come on.  I said that there were some exceptions. But generally, I don't care if it's genetics, or experience or tradition.  If men and women suddenly switched roles you'd have a huge increase of crap-filled diapers, and toddler concussions.

If we're going to accept that statement, then I suppose women being crappier drivers, less intelligent, etc. are all true as well.

Ooooh good one.  Rather than arguing directly with my point you came up with a completely unrelated example.
Do you really think that the majority of men have the instincts, experience, desire, and patience to do as good of a job as women?  

Its not really that unrelated, the same principle is at issue. If you're willing to accept the fact that women are genetically predisposed to being better parents, then you would have to be willing to at least accept the possibility that women are genetically inferior in some ways, examples being intelligence, driving, etc.

Okay, I'll accept that women and men are genetically different.  Men are generally stronger, bigger, and faster.  Am I wrong about that too?

Now please answer my question:
Do you really think that the majority of men have the instincts, experience, desire, and patience to do as good of a job as women in raising small children?  

[Susan B. Anthony]

I do not in fact want to be a mommy.

When I hear a baby crying, I get the urge to shake something.

Good maternal instincts there, eh?

Furthermore, not wanting any spawn of mine in daycare (which, imo, doesn't have to be bad) doesn't mean that I would need to stay home and care for it.

[Trivium]

Come on.  I said that there were some exceptions. But generally, I don't care if it's genetics, or experience or tradition.  If men and women suddenly switched roles you'd have a huge increase of crap-filled diapers, and toddler concussions.

If we're going to accept that statement, then I suppose women being crappier drivers, less intelligent, etc. are all true as well.

Ooooh good one.  Rather than arguing directly with my point you came up with a completely unrelated example.
Do you really think that the majority of men have the instincts, experience, desire, and patience to do as good of a job as women?  

Its not really that unrelated, the same principle is at issue. If you're willing to accept the fact that women are genetically predisposed to being better parents, then you would have to be willing to at least accept the possibility that women are genetically inferior in some ways, examples being intelligence, driving, etc.

Okay, I'll accept that women and men are genetically different.  Men are generally stronger, bigger, and faster.  Am I wrong about that too?

Now please answer my question:
Do you really think that the majority of men have the instincts, experience, desire, and patience to do as good of a job as women in raising small children?  

Some men, yes. Some men, no. Also, some women yes, some women, no. I don't see a difference in parenting skills between men and women. Generally, people are people and the degree of parenting skills they have is generally a result of the type of person they are.

[Susan B. Anthony]

I love how, every time this argument starts, it ends up being the progressive/feminist women who end up shouting "MEN ARE JUST AS GOOD AT TAKING CARE OF CHILDREN AS WOMEN ARE." And then guys say "NO WE'RE NOT."  It's very interesting that, on certain issues, women are so concerned about being 'equal to' or 'the same' as men that they would rather refuse than accept a leading role.

OH! OH OH OH HEY FEMINISTS! LOOK! HERE'S AN AREA WE CAN SAY WE'RE BETTER THAN MEN, EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD UNDERMINE SO MANY THINGS ABOUT WHAT WE'VE BEEN SAYING! WE SHOULD SEIZE IT!

c'mon, dash!

But why?  Why can't you just accept that men and women are different?  It doesn't mean that women should stay home with the children in every circumstance, or that the men have to be the breadwinners in every family - or even the large majority of them.  But there are differences, and to be blind to that is simply naive.

no one said I'm blind to the differences between men and women

i don't have a penis. i'm well aware.

what i don't agree with is this idea that most of the differences between men and women that we see are genetic inevitabilities, or that, if they aren't genetic inevitabilities but are social constructions, they're good social constructions according to my definition.

[nike6075]

Come on.  I said that there were some exceptions. But generally, I don't care if it's genetics, or experience or tradition.  If men and women suddenly switched roles you'd have a huge increase of crap-filled diapers, and toddler concussions.

If we're going to accept that statement, then I suppose women being crappier drivers, less intelligent, etc. are all true as well.

Ooooh good one.  Rather than arguing directly with my point you came up with a completely unrelated example.
Do you really think that the majority of men have the instincts, experience, desire, and patience to do as good of a job as women?  

Its not really that unrelated, the same principle is at issue. If you're willing to accept the fact that women are genetically predisposed to being better parents, then you would have to be willing to at least accept the possibility that women are genetically inferior in some ways, examples being intelligence, driving, etc.

Possible - why not?  In practice, I'd say it's perhaps the opposite.  Women receive lower insurance rates than men because they're less likely to drive in such a way that would make the insurance companies have to pay out on claims.  Does this mean that actuaries are sexist?

[jack24]

I do not in fact want to be a mommy.

When I hear a baby crying, I get the urge to shake something.

Good maternal instincts there, eh?

Furthermore, not wanting any spawn of mine in daycare (which, imo, doesn't have to be bad) doesn't mean that I would need to stay home and care for it.

Okay, thanks for the honesty.
You don't want kids.
I respect your opinions but I don't think you know what the hell you're talking about.
If you don't want kids then your arguments are based on what is good for you.  I'm making arguments based on what I believe will be the best for my future children.