Law School Discussion

Poll

yay or nay?  yes, this is heteronormative, i know i know.

a. yay
46 (74.2%)
b. nay
16 (25.8%)

Total Members Voted: 61

Girl taking guy's last name after marriage

mbw

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #180 on: April 10, 2008, 12:17:19 PM »

Also, another thing I think we're missing is the way our society is currently structured forces many people to choose between parenting or a career.  I have given up 5 years of my youth to raise children, and fallen way behind in my career in the process. 

Good point.  What do you think is the cause of this?

(Note: I have a good idea what I think it is.)


I'm so glad you asked.  Quite honestly, I think we're in a transitional period in the history of feminism.  We are moving towards a more balanced civilization where roles are defined by the people in them, and not strictly by gender.   Within another generation or two, people won't be forced to make these decisions because parenting (in general) will be valued to a higher degree.  Our society will understand that there is a benefit to all of us when children are raised by their parents (male or female).  We will all make certain concessions in order to facilitate that while still allowing the parents to be productive.

I think technology really helps bring these changes about.  There are more options than ever (flex time, working from home, teleconferencing, etc), and those options will keep changing and getting better.  While there will probably always be certain jobs that require a traditional 9-5 presence, I hope we will find a way to balance work and life a little more effectively in this country.  We can be productive, fulfilled people while raising healthy and well-balanced children.  I think this will include longer family leave times, more work from home options, flex time, and even expanded on-site childcare.

This is definitely how we were able to develop a more balanced approach to parenting, as we now both work out of the house (er, RV) now.  Of course, I won't be able to do that in law school, so we'll have to renegotiate our roles, schedules, etc.  But just having those options is invaluable, and decreases the pressure of one parent to be the "breadwinner", while the other is thus forced into the default role of the parental caregiver.

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Women aren't going to continue to be forced into the "family or career" choice.  We want it all, and we will have it, or at least secure it for our children.   At the same time, I think it is important to eliminate the stigma for parents who would prefer to stay home with the children.  Currently, both mothers and fathers who choose to stay home with children are looked at as less valuable than their working counterparts.  That needs to change.

You know, this is so true.  I think I've accomplished quite a bit since first becoming a parent 22 years ago, but I'm still stressing over the addendum I have to write explaining why I took time off for parenting.  It really sucks to think that law schools might not think I'm a committed student because I decided to prioritize the care and education of my sons after their autism diagnoses.  However, it is slightly comforting to know my spouse will have to write a similar addendum when he applies to law school a couple of years down the line.

jack24

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #181 on: April 10, 2008, 12:18:08 PM »
Some people on this thread are saying that it's restrictive to ask mothers to choose between careers or children.  Many women who have children are forced to work due to financial problems.  I don't have statistics to back it up, but it seems to me that a lot of mothers who have to work wish they could stay home with their children.

Women can choose to do whatever they want, but there is nothing wrong with a woman that thinks raising children is more noble and important than advancing her career.

You can suggest that I'm trying to use social forces to compel women to be "barefoot and pregnant in the Kitchen"
I'm not trying to compel anyone to do anything.  My wife chooses to stay home, and if she wanted to go back to work, I'd still love her just as much.
I'm arguing that progressives are trying to use social forces to compel women to "Get out and Work!"
Many in society are using arguments about equality to suggest that women who stay at home are somehow submitting to the will of their husbands.






BearlyLegal

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #182 on: April 10, 2008, 12:18:55 PM »
Iím just doing my part to counter act the liberal bias that is so plainly prevalent in law related online message boards and remind posters there is a definite truth out there. Xman did not have divine inspiration.
This is where you and I part ways...

TNGA60

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #183 on: April 10, 2008, 12:21:45 PM »
As to the a-hole with the palm tree 'tar and the sister he's ashamed of: You say she made mistakes, I translated this to you thinking she screwed up. Tomato, tomato.

I never said she made mistakes. You should try reading my posts more slowly. It is not in there. Not once.

My bad, you said her situation was less than ideal. Like I said, I'm sure she really appreciates your pronouncements on the idealness (or not) of her situation.

See previous posts.

This is useless. I feel stupid for even getting sucked in to argueing with you. You seem unable to keep up.

just dot

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #184 on: April 10, 2008, 12:22:22 PM »

And on the same note, sort of . . .  I would like to think that this is the case, but I'm not so optimistic.  I think that the economic future is going to cause a lot of anxiety and unrest, and I'm afraid that this is going to feed into the current feminist backlash.

But then again, I'm a pessimist to the core.

I think you're right...in the short run.  I think things will get a lot worse before they get better.  It will take a few generations, but things will come around.  Big changes take time and are usually met with some resistance by people who are more comfortable with the status quo.  It will happen in time because women have come too far to be shoved back into the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. ( At least, unless it is their choice to be.   :D )

Astro

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #185 on: April 10, 2008, 12:23:00 PM »
Some people on this thread are saying that it's restrictive to ask mothers to choose between careers or children.  Many women who have children are forced to work due to financial problems.  I don't have statistics to back it up, but it seems to me that a lot of mothers who have to work wish they could stay home with their children.

Women can choose to do whatever they want, but there is nothing wrong with a woman that thinks raising children is more noble and important than advancing her career.

You can suggest that I'm trying to use social forces to compel women to be "barefoot and pregnant in the Kitchen"
I'm not trying to compel anyone to do anything.  My wife chooses to stay home, and if she wanted to go back to work, I'd still love her just as much.
I'm arguing that progressives are trying to use social forces to compel women to "Get out and Work!"
Many in society are using arguments about equality to suggest that women who stay at home are somehow submitting to the will of their husbands.








Are you making a strawman out of your own argument now?  This is not what you've been pursuing all through this thread.

Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #186 on: April 10, 2008, 12:24:23 PM »


Are you making a strawman out of your own argument now?  This is not what you've been pursuing all through this thread.


hahahahhahahahhaha

TNGA60

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #187 on: April 10, 2008, 12:25:28 PM »


mbw

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #188 on: April 10, 2008, 12:26:08 PM »
Some people on this thread are saying that it's restrictive to ask mothers to choose between careers or children.  Many women who have children are forced to work due to financial problems.  I don't have statistics to back it up, but it seems to me that a lot of mothers who have to work wish they could stay home with their children.

Women can choose to do whatever they want, but there is nothing wrong with a woman that thinks raising children is more noble and important than advancing her career.

You can suggest that I'm trying to use social forces to compel women to be "barefoot and pregnant in the Kitchen"
I'm not trying to compel anyone to do anything.  My wife chooses to stay home, and if she wanted to go back to work, I'd still love her just as much.
I'm arguing that progressives are trying to use social forces to compel women to "Get out and Work!"
Many in society are using arguments about equality to suggest that women who stay at home are somehow submitting to the will of their husbands.

It's being opposed to Essentialism.  Really, now, why do women get, by default, to stay home if they want?  Because they have unmentionables and estrogen?  Seriously, I'm trying to understand why you think women get to be the ones, by default, to stay home to parent children.

jack24

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #189 on: April 10, 2008, 12:27:10 PM »
Some people on this thread are saying that it's restrictive to ask mothers to choose between careers or children.  Many women who have children are forced to work due to financial problems.  I don't have statistics to back it up, but it seems to me that a lot of mothers who have to work wish they could stay home with their children.

Women can choose to do whatever they want, but there is nothing wrong with a woman that thinks raising children is more noble and important than advancing her career.

You can suggest that I'm trying to use social forces to compel women to be "barefoot and pregnant in the Kitchen"
I'm not trying to compel anyone to do anything.  My wife chooses to stay home, and if she wanted to go back to work, I'd still love her just as much.
I'm arguing that progressives are trying to use social forces to compel women to "Get out and Work!"
Many in society are using arguments about equality to suggest that women who stay at home are somehow submitting to the will of their husbands.








Are you making a strawman out of your own argument now?  This is not what you've been pursuing all through this thread.


Sometimes I do adjust my opinions based on new perspectives I get. 
But I'm still sticking to my guns on some things.

1: Women don't  "Belong" only in the home, but I believe that the traditional roles work very well
2: Giving birth to, and responsibly raising children is the most noble thing a woman can do.
3: There are natural differences between men and women that make women better at nurturing.  These absolutes are prevalent in studies of evolution or religion
4: Good mothers and fathers are our best line of defense against many of societies major problems.