Law School Discussion

Poll

yay or nay?  yes, this is heteronormative, i know i know.

a. yay
46 (74.2%)
b. nay
16 (25.8%)

Total Members Voted: 61

Girl taking guy's last name after marriage

just dot

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #170 on: April 10, 2008, 12:02:54 PM »

Also, another thing I think we're missing is the way our society is currently structured forces many people to choose between parenting or a career.  I have given up 5 years of my youth to raise children, and fallen way behind in my career in the process. 

Good point.  What do you think is the cause of this?

(Note: I have a good idea what I think it is.)


I'm so glad you asked.  Quite honestly, I think we're in a transitional period in the history of feminism.  We are moving towards a more balanced civilization where roles are defined by the people in them, and not strictly by gender.   Within another generation or two, people won't be forced to make these decisions because parenting (in general) will be valued to a higher degree.  Our society will understand that there is a benefit to all of us when children are raised by their parents (male or female).  We will all make certain concessions in order to facilitate that while still allowing the parents to be productive.

I think technology really helps bring these changes about.  There are more options than ever (flex time, working from home, teleconferencing, etc), and those options will keep changing and getting better.  While there will probably always be certain jobs that require a traditional 9-5 presence, I hope we will find a way to balance work and life a little more effectively in this country.  We can be productive, fulfilled people while raising healthy and well-balanced children.  I think this will include longer family leave times, more work from home options, flex time, and even expanded on-site childcare.  

Women aren't going to continue to be forced into the "family or career" choice.  We want it all, and we will have it, or at least secure it for our children.   At the same time, I think it is important to eliminate the stigma for parents who would prefer to stay home with the children.  Currently, both mothers and fathers who choose to stay home with children are looked at as less valuable than their working counterparts.  That needs to change.

mbw

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #171 on: April 10, 2008, 12:03:37 PM »
God, I wish it was the Dark Ages, so we could burn you all at the stake as witches. 

<-----grumbles about growing up in the wrong era.



Yeah, in your hemisphere.  In mine, women were developing agriculture, and hence, matriarchy blossomed during that time.


BearlyLegal

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #172 on: April 10, 2008, 12:06:32 PM »
God, I wish it was the Dark Ages, so we could burn you all at the stake as witches. 

<-----grumbles about growing up in the wrong era.



Yeah, in your hemisphere.  In mine, women were developing agriculture, and hence, matriarchy blossomed during that time.


Just wondering, why is Matriarchy a more credited "Archy" than Patriarchy?

I'd love to live in a world without "archies". That'd be sweet, no? Being able to define your own social roles?

Prestjesus

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #173 on: April 10, 2008, 12:09:19 PM »

Also, another thing I think we're missing is the way our society is currently structured forces many people to choose between parenting or a career.  I have given up 5 years of my youth to raise children, and fallen way behind in my career in the process. 

Good point.  What do you think is the cause of this?

(Note: I have a good idea what I think it is.)


Obviously, the root of this is women turning away from their faith towards a life of unrelenting self-indulgence at the cost of their place in heaven by shirking their duty to their men. The Lord, in his ultimate wisdom, placed uppity women and fake dinosaur “fossils” on the earth to test our patience and our faith.
You are credited flame, and your name is an inspiration to us all.  TYTYTY!

You are not quite on Xman's level, but I salute you anyway!  :)

I’m just doing my part to counter act the liberal bias that is so plainly prevalent in law related online message boards and remind posters there is a definite truth out there. Xman did not have divine inspiration.

Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #174 on: April 10, 2008, 12:10:45 PM »
As to the a-hole with the palm tree 'tar and the sister he's ashamed of: You say she made mistakes, I translated this to you thinking she screwed up. Tomato, tomato.

I never said she made mistakes. You should try reading my posts more slowly. It is not in there. Not once.

My bad, you said her situation was less than ideal. Like I said, I'm sure she really appreciates your pronouncements on the idealness (or not) of her situation.

BearlyLegal

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #175 on: April 10, 2008, 12:13:13 PM »

3) There is another macro/micro argument going on here that some of you guys are missing, IMO. Look, males as a macro social group commit more crime, are more likely to drop out of school, are more likely to to make impulsive decisions, etc. These things are factual, and there are significant amounts of empirical data that support them.

Why the statistics are what they are, I don't know. Could be genetics, or could be how we raise boys. But we find ourselves in a situation, where on a macro level, males as a group seem to be less socially responsible than females.  Now, that doesn't mean that some individual men may be WAY better equipped to be a primary parent than their female partners - just that taken in aggregate, Women > Men at parenting.

This doesn't mean that men shouldn't take an active role in parenting, and it certainly doesn't mean that in some relationships, men shouldn't take on the primary parental responsibilities - again, this should be determined at a micro, relationship-by-relationship level, and normative assumptions shouldn't apply.


I think the idea here, though, is that regardless of where any perceived differences are coming from, they're being used as justification to restrict women to certain social roles.  So either this needs to stop being an acceptable justification for prescribing social roles, OR these differences need to be remedied.  IMO it would be best for both genders if both occurred.

Agreed, with the added caveat that this BS process restricts men to current social roles as well. Pretty much noone benefits from the current normative construction. Maybe these rules were legitimately instated back when we used to hunt wildebeast to survive or whatever, but the times, they are a-changin'.   


Ah, you and I have been here before.

I think it's true that because of economic (more than social) changes, men are benefiting less tangibly (not that they're not benefiting at all, because they still are) from prescribed gender norms than they used to.  But psychologically, emotionally, etc. . . . I don't know, I think the argument cuts both ways. 

I think maybe you misread me a little bit. Prescribed social roles go a long way to contributing to things such as the boy's dropout phenomenon (because when we raise them, "boys will be boys", right?); the fact that women live on average 8 years longer than men (hey, don't go to the doctor - "real men" don't whine!); the assumption that men cannot fill primary parental roles; etc. Sure, women are more visibly impacted by social roles, but there is a significant negative impact on men's lives too.

Social roles are crap, and way past their due date. This, IMO, isn't a "feminist" position. This is more of a "humanist" one.

GTQ

Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #176 on: April 10, 2008, 12:13:53 PM »
Oh, and tm, I would like to know what you wanted to say. You get a qualified free pass, just this once, and if it makes me laugh, even on the inside, you get another.

i wonder what angry sex with dash would be like?  i bet it would be awesome.

to my knowledge, you've never ever laughed, and even if you had i wouldn't expect that you would laugh at that so much as be offended.  so i won't be expecting another qualified free pass and you need not confirm that i won't be getting another one.

I swear to god, I completely laughed. Almost out loud. At school.


_________
FREE PASS

GTQ

Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #177 on: April 10, 2008, 12:14:00 PM »


And on the same note, sort of . . .  I would like to think that this is the case, but I'm not so optimistic.  I think that the economic future is going to cause a lot of anxiety and unrest, and I'm afraid that this is going to feed into the current feminist backlash.

But then again, I'm a pessimist to the core.

Likewise.

I'm not terribly optimistic.

Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #178 on: April 10, 2008, 12:15:35 PM »
Dear Rambis,

I think I like you.

Is there a reason I shouldn't?

Love,

Cady

BearlyLegal

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Re: Girl taking guy's last name after marriage
« Reply #179 on: April 10, 2008, 12:15:47 PM »
I'm not optimistic about change either. Hoping for change assumes that we are smart and learn from our mistakes. I think it's pretty clear that we, as a species, are pretty flipping dumb.