Law School Discussion

BU's v. BC's employment.

Re: BU's v. BC's employment.
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2008, 02:50:47 PM »

As a BU student, I love BU. However, BC has a slightly advantage in recruiting with top firms. In the only ranking of how law firms recruit, the National Law Journal ranked Boston College Law School in the top 15 law schools. Harvard was the only other Boston school that placed in the top 20 for recruiting. Its been debated on my former posts.


At BU, we hire our graduates when they don't have jobs. This allows us to keep our US News stats high. However, BU still does well. I have discussed this with other students and alumni on this board and in private life. I personally think BU is catching up to BC though. BC just seems to do better because of their alumni network in Boston. I still think BU offers as good an education, even if recruiting and placement is a little off.

I hate having to discredit Bosox when it comes to his seemingly unique view about BU.  Few BU students care to make the comparison, but no one I know at BU thinks that BU is trailing BC.  We (including 1Ls) get summer jobs at big firms at similar rate, have virtually identical numbers of alums at firms in Boston and else where.  Bosox cites to one source that ranks BC higher.  There are a handful sources that suggest otherwise.  All in all, I am with BAMF on this.  Employment prospects of the two schools are virtually identical. 

Bosox:  The references to “even BU people on here said so” seem to refer to you and you alone.   More importantly, your BU/BC analysis is just not supported factually.   All the rankings aside, do a search at every major firm in Boston and NYC (and wherever else), and you will see that BAMF and I are right. 

Re: BU's v. BC's employment.
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2008, 08:03:20 PM »
A question and a comment.  Well, a comment, a question, and another comment.

BC has lower LSAT and GPA medians than BU.

I was accepted at both and chose not to go because BC, like Notre Dame, is in decline. They are both riding off of their undergrad "prestige," if it may be called that.

a) Who f-ing cares what the medians are?  I think that is such a bull argument every time I see someone trying to detract from a school by saying that their medians are lower than their peer schools.  And anyway, considering that you transferred into UVA, I'm pretty shocked that you think those numbers have anything to do with real student quality, as that viewpoint seems to insult your own quality as a student.

b) I've seen you say this in other threads, and you are the ONLY person I have ever heard say that about either school.  And based on this year's rankings at least, you were wrong about ND.  I mean, do you have data to back this up?  Have BC's reputation scores actually been falling over the years at a steady rate, or is BU just catching up while BC is holding steady?  I'm not trying to antagonize you, I honestly want to know what is the basis of your opinion.

c) FWIW, and I posted this somewhere else awhile ago, I spoke with an '07 grad at an event who said he used to work in Career Services, and he said that that particular number is BC's biggest problem in the rankings.  He said that they had been having a really hard time getting the survey responses back from people, their "true" employment numbers were substantially higher, and that they had embarked on an effort to improve their response rate. How that relates to the "unknown" percentage is a mystery to me, but this is what he said (and I guess I might take it with a grain of salt, but it at least answers the question to an extent).



a)  medians matter. give me examples of how they don't.

b) you obviously haven't been surfing the web much. there has been talk of BC and ND declining from others too (the latter more common than the former). BC was clearly the #2 school in boston years ago. now people aren't even sure.

c) don't BC kids talk about how great their alumni network is? how come grads aren't filling out surveys? this seems suspect to me.

with all this said, BC is a good school and places well in Boston. although i would say that it is getting outshined by BU and is now very close to being the #3 school in Boston. nationally, BU is definitely outshining BC though. BC needs to step it up because they are getting whooped by BU and have been for the past 5 years or so. can anybody really deny this? there used to be a big divide between the two and now its nonexistant.

ND's situation is more hopeless though because they are overshadowed by midwest schools like Chicago, Michigan, and Northwestern. Even UIUC gives ND a run for its money sometimes.

BearlyLegal

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Re: BU's v. BC's employment.
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2008, 04:02:30 AM »
A question and a comment.  Well, a comment, a question, and another comment.

BC has lower LSAT and GPA medians than BU.

I was accepted at both and chose not to go because BC, like Notre Dame, is in decline. They are both riding off of their undergrad "prestige," if it may be called that.

a) Who f-ing cares what the medians are?  I think that is such a bull argument every time I see someone trying to detract from a school by saying that their medians are lower than their peer schools.  And anyway, considering that you transferred into UVA, I'm pretty shocked that you think those numbers have anything to do with real student quality, as that viewpoint seems to insult your own quality as a student.

b) I've seen you say this in other threads, and you are the ONLY person I have ever heard say that about either school.  And based on this year's rankings at least, you were wrong about ND.  I mean, do you have data to back this up?  Have BC's reputation scores actually been falling over the years at a steady rate, or is BU just catching up while BC is holding steady?  I'm not trying to antagonize you, I honestly want to know what is the basis of your opinion.

c) FWIW, and I posted this somewhere else awhile ago, I spoke with an '07 grad at an event who said he used to work in Career Services, and he said that that particular number is BC's biggest problem in the rankings.  He said that they had been having a really hard time getting the survey responses back from people, their "true" employment numbers were substantially higher, and that they had embarked on an effort to improve their response rate. How that relates to the "unknown" percentage is a mystery to me, but this is what he said (and I guess I might take it with a grain of salt, but it at least answers the question to an extent).



a)  medians matter. give me examples of how they don't.

b) you obviously haven't been surfing the web much. there has been talk of BC and ND declining from others too (the latter more common than the former). BC was clearly the #2 school in boston years ago. now people aren't even sure.

c) don't BC kids talk about how great their alumni network is? how come grads aren't filling out surveys? this seems suspect to me.

with all this said, BC is a good school and places well in Boston. although i would say that it is getting outshined by BU and is now very close to being the #3 school in Boston. nationally, BU is definitely outshining BC though. BC needs to step it up because they are getting whooped by BU and have been for the past 5 years or so. can anybody really deny this? there used to be a big divide between the two and now its nonexistant.

ND's situation is more hopeless though because they are overshadowed by midwest schools like Chicago, Michigan, and Northwestern. Even UIUC gives ND a run for its money sometimes.
Umm...

"there used to be a big divide but now it is nonexistant."

and

"they are getting whooped by BU"

Reconcile these two mutually exclusive statements please.

Re: BU's v. BC's employment.
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2008, 10:12:07 AM »
I love vast overstatements.  In no part of the country is BU cleaning up far and above BC. 

Also, I have read the same law boards as you have and have never once read that ND is in decline.  While it is overshadowed somewhat by the national schools in the midwest, it will always have the prestige of its undergrad.  Furthermore, didn't ND just jump in the rankings?

Bosox

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Re: BU's v. BC's employment.
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2008, 12:42:48 PM »

In interesting read can be found here.
www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1168423325385

I don't think you should put too much stock into either school. You need to do well at eitehr school to get BigLaw. This is the same for all schools in the T30. I wouldn't get too upset that BC does marginally better than our school.

Re: BU's v. BC's employment.
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2008, 12:58:14 PM »
It's not that interesting because you and others have cited it over and over again.  Yes, NLJ last year had BC higher. But NLJ the year before that had BU higher, so do Leiter's, Vault's and other compilations based on law firm numbers (broken down by V5, v25, v50 and v100).  BC does not do better career-wise, marginally or not.  Nor does BU, probably.   

I hate mis-information, especially from a surprising, unlikely, yet very persistent source.   


In interesting read can be found here.
www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1168423325385

I don't think you should put too much stock into either school. You need to do well at eitehr school to get BigLaw. This is the same for all schools in the T30. I wouldn't get too upset that BC does marginally better than our school.

nukelaw

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Re: BU's v. BC's employment.
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2008, 01:01:58 PM »
Some thoughts on this debate as a 2L that's been through OCI at one of the two schools in question:

1) I would not feel comfortable commenting about job prospects at BU since much of the OCI info I even have from BC is anecdotal either from my experience or that told to me by close friends. Short of getting the directors of the career services offices of BC and BU together at a bar, getting them really drunk, and having them tell you what prospects are really like (i.e. - GPA/rank cutoffs for firms), I wouldn't listen to any comparison offered on this board or any other.

2) There is a lot of overlap in the BC/BU recruiting market. All the major Boston firms interview at OCI for both of them. They also hold joint career fairs off-campus in major cities through the Law Consortium. When I did off-campus in DC, BC and BU students literally shared the same meeting room between interviews and were put in the same lottery for last minute openings.

3) RE: BC's employment numbers. Our reporting policies differ than a lot of schools that cook the books for the rankings. We've consistently reported any one without a job at graduation as just that. We haven't played around with "studying for the bar" or hiring them as research assistants. I'd pay more attention to the 9-month rate since smaller employers and government jobs are often contingent on passage of the Bar exam. If this is the statistic you're using to decide between BC and BU, do some homework and ask tough questions of all sides.

4) RE: BC's decline in prestige. This is a myth in my opinion. The faculty have been the same for some time. The student body numbers have been pretty much the same. Even the ranking in US News is only off by about one place from our average of 25 in the eighteen editions of the rankings that have come out since 1987 (wasn't annual until early 1990's). If I had to guess, we'll probably break the top 25 again next year, get close to 20, and then flip-flop again with BU. Why? Because it sells issues and that's what US News is attempting to do at the end of the day.

BearlyLegal

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Re: BU's v. BC's employment.
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2008, 01:05:14 PM »

In interesting read can be found here.
www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1168423325385

I don't think you should put too much stock into either school. You need to do well at eitehr school to get BigLaw. This is the same for all schools in the T30. I wouldn't get too upset that BC does marginally better than our school.

I don't subscribe to that - I can't see!
Neither can I. :(

I am not sure what Bosox' deal is. I agree totally that placement from BC and BU is the same (though I firmly believe that there is a marginally better chance of getting a boston job from BC and a national job from BU). Why do you keep ripping on BU, man? As I mentioned in another thread, in my V15 firm, we have 21 BU grads, but only 4 BC grads. It's only one anecdotal firm, and I am sure that firms with an office in Boston would have the opposite placement statistics, but still, it says something about BU's placement Vis-A-Vis BC. Are you sure you are not just assuming that the grass is greener on the other side?  ???

I'd be totally happy to go to either one of these schools.

Bosox

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Re: BU's v. BC's employment.
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2008, 01:19:17 PM »

In interesting read can be found here.
www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1168423325385

I don't think you should put too much stock into either school. You need to do well at eitehr school to get BigLaw. This is the same for all schools in the T30. I wouldn't get too upset that BC does marginally better than our school.

I don't subscribe to that - I can't see!
Neither can I. :(

I am not sure what Bosox' deal is. I agree totally that placement from BC and BU is the same (though I firmly believe that there is a marginally better chance of getting a boston job from BC and a national job from BU). Why do you keep ripping on BU, man? As I mentioned in another thread, in my V15 firm, we have 21 BU grads, but only 4 BC grads. It's only one anecdotal firm, and I am sure that firms with an office in Boston would have the opposite placement statistics, but still, it says something about BU's placement Vis-A-Vis BC. Are you sure you are not just assuming that the grass is greener on the other side?  ???

I'd be totally happy to go to either one of these schools.

I actually don't have an issue with BU. I enjoyed my time. I don't think it is responsible for people on this board to be claiming that our school places better at large firms. I turned down some pretty good schools to come to BU and, after getting decent grades, I was left without a job and had to work on my own to track down employment. I was not alone. About 25 other students in my class were unemployed about six months ago, and all of us were in the top half of the class. I have friends working retail becuase they could not get a job. I am not saying this is going to happen to anyone, but you have to do very well to get BIGLAW from BU.

Having said that, I dont think it is MUCH better at BC. However, the friends that I have who attneded BC all did very well in recruiting. Students with below average GPAs were able to land jobs at Ropes/Wilmer/Goodwin/Choate etc.

I was pretty amazed during 2L, and maybe now that I am a little older, I can provide some insight about my experience to others on this board. I think its important for people to post on this board other than than 1Ls and accepted students. I think we have a little more insight into the law school experience than the 1Ls or admitted students.

Re: BU's v. BC's employment.
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2008, 01:27:32 PM »
Bosox has been "ripping" on BU for a couple years now with the same claim about reputation and career prospect, citing to the one same NLJ study, ignoring all the rest.  He might be a BC troll in disguise.