Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?

[NYU2011]

Ghost what advantage have I ever received because I am White?

I'm white and well aware of the advantages I have because I'm white. And you are too. I'm also a woman and the daughter of working class parents who didn't go to college and yet I still realize, despite my gender/socioeconomic status, that in our society I was born on third base simply because of the color of my skin (and my parents' and their parents' and their parents'). Whatever your background may be - you were too.  But unlike you, I don't go around pretending that I hit a triple. 

What advantages? All you people talk about is "advantages you know you have."  Yet no one can name any. 

Here's a checklist for you, from sociologist Peggy McIntosh of Wellesley University:

___ 1. I can arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.  There are many communities with more black people than white people, the same goes for other minorities.  Furthermore, why does this matter unless your assuming that a majority of White's are racist toward minorities which I do not believe is the case

___ 2. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.  I do not think that a majority of minorities have been harassed and followed while going shopping any more than others.  If you go shopping in a big city there is a distinct possibility that you may be harassed by someone on the street asking for money regardless of what race you are.

___ 3. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented. [Do you actually watch TV?  Blacks are considered a minority and are on many television shows and in the paper.  Most of the items in the front page of the paper are negative things anyway, would you want to be on the front page?  I also don't know of any WET (white entertainment television) where I can see people of my race almost exclusively.[/b]

___ 4. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization", I am shown that people of my color made it what it is. "I also don't remember any "white History month" and I have heard of many blacks who helped shape our country"

___ 5. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.I dont even know what you are saying by this, I do not believe that many curricular materials say many races are not real.

___ 6. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the food I grew up with, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.Really now, are you going to tell me that there are no minority music artists?  Supermarkets put up food that they can sell, and there are many supermarkets/restaurants which cater to different preferences

___ 7. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial responsibility.again your assuming people are racist, I doubt that a majority of minorities are made fun of for using credit cards, checks, or cash.  I have never seen a store that says "Caucasians can use whatever form of currency they would like, Minorities must pay in cash"

___ 8. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing, or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.Neither are most minorities.  I will admit that there are some minorities who are generalized to "smell offensive" to other people.  I don't think it should result in said race getting rewarded in any way.

___ 9. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.This works both ways.  I worry about racism (AA) or things like a Black beauty pagent and am told I am a self-interested, self-seeking, racist

___ 10. I can take a job or enroll in a college with an affirmative action policy without having my co-workers or peers assume I got it because of my race.SO TAKE AWAY AA and you will not have this problem...oh wait I doubt you really want to do that

___ 11. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.Again I do not believe most in the business world say certain minorities are more tardy than others.

___ 12. I can choose public accommodation with out fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated.How many minorities are treated poorly in public accommodation any longer?  And there are some clubs and streets where it is not at all safe to be a white person.

___ 13. I am never asked to speak for all of the people of my racial group.Just was at the beginning of this post (although technically i'm not a WASP, but I am white

___ 14. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk with the"person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.There are plenty of minority managers and leaders.  However, being as they are a minority, there are likely fewer than those of the majority.

___ 15. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.so does this mean if a minority cop or woman cop pulls me over I can blame it on being a White male?  I just got a speeding ticket on the way back to campus for going 48 in a 35, with the 45 MPH sign literally 20 feet in front of me.

___ 16. I can easily by posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children.s magazines featuring people of my race.again it depends on which minority you are in.  I believe business produce what there is consumer demand for.

___ 17. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in .flesh. color and have them more or less match my skin.are you kidding me!?  So start a business and make bandages that are the color of whatever your skin is if you think it will sell well enough for you to make money

___ 18. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.I have been told many times that people are surprised what I am doing with my life considering where I came from.  I believe Bearly is probably the same way.

___ 19. I can walk into a classroom and know I will not be the only member of my race.Depends on where you go to school.  There are plenty of schools that are a majority of minority students.

___ 20. I can enroll in a class at college and be sure that the majority of my professors will be of my race.Unless your insinuating that there are many racist teachers I dont understand why this is a problem.  As you are a minority it is probable that most teachers will not be of your race.

[mbw]

Do Asians benefit from general affirmative action laws?  Certainly, in areas where they are in fact a minority (which is practically everywhere outside of Hawai'i and California) and where there aren't state laws barring AA. 

I have never heard of an Asian, Indian or Persian getting affirmative action. On the contrary, I have seen white people with much lower SAT and high school GPAs get into better colleges than many of the Asians and Indians I have met. My friend (who is Jewish, not Asian or Indian with an axe to grind) did a research project in college about non-URM minority college admissions, and he found that it is statistically harder for an Asian or Indian person to get into Harvard than a WHITE person with the same scores. He had shocking quotes from an Ivy League admissions officer with things like "we don't like to admit too many Asians because they are socially awkward, isolate themselves from other races and add little to the overall campus environment." Personal experience at one of the more 'Asian' UC schools reflected this in my experience as well. It seemed like the Asians and Indians I talked to always have higher SAT and GPAs than the white kids.

Maybe it's different in law school, but I doubt it. Every school I applied to, whether in CA, midwest, or east coast had more Asians than all the other minorities combined. Furthermore, the premises on which AA are based have been pretty much destroyed by the fact that Persians, Indians and many Asians went from poor to RICH in ONE GENERATION. Help out the poor people, but lazy people of any race don't deserve special treatment. Hard working people of all races deserve it.

You need to re-read my original post.  I said "general affirmative action laws", since affirmative action covers a hell of a lot more than just getting into college.  Asians, where they are a minority, are included in programs which benefit other racial minorities, not just AA, NA/IA and Latino/a peoples, aka URMs.

And you do know that Indians and Persians are in fact Asians? (I'm confused as to why you're naming them as distinct.)  Do you mean East Asians, e.g., Chinese, Japanese, Koreans,along with Indians and Persians?

[naturallybeyoutiful]

Here's a checklist for you, from sociologist Peggy McIntosh of Wellesley University:

___ 1. I can arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.  There are many communities with more black people than white people, the same goes for other minorities.  Furthermore, why does this matter unless your assuming that a majority of White's are racist toward minorities which I do not believe is the case

___ 2. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.  I do not think that a majority of minorities have been harassed and followed while going shopping any more than others.  If you go shopping in a big city there is a distinct possibility that you may be harassed by someone on the street asking for money regardless of what race you are.

___ 3. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented. [Do you actually watch TV?  Blacks are considered a minority and are on many television shows and in the paper.  Most of the items in the front page of the paper are negative things anyway, would you want to be on the front page?  I also don't know of any WET (white entertainment television) where I can see people of my race almost exclusively.[/b]

___ 4. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization", I am shown that people of my color made it what it is. "I also don't remember any "white History month" and I have heard of many blacks who helped shape our country"

___ 5. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.I dont even know what you are saying by this, I do not believe that many curricular materials say many races are not real.

___ 6. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the food I grew up with, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.Really now, are you going to tell me that there are no minority music artists?  Supermarkets put up food that they can sell, and there are many supermarkets/restaurants which cater to different preferences

___ 7. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial responsibility.again your assuming people are racist, I doubt that a majority of minorities are made fun of for using credit cards, checks, or cash.  I have never seen a store that says "Caucasians can use whatever form of currency they would like, Minorities must pay in cash"

___ 8. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing, or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.Neither are most minorities.  I will admit that there are some minorities who are generalized to "smell offensive" to other people.  I don't think it should result in said race getting rewarded in any way.

___ 9. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.This works both ways.  I worry about racism (AA) or things like a Black beauty pagent and am told I am a self-interested, self-seeking, racist

___ 10. I can take a job or enroll in a college with an affirmative action policy without having my co-workers or peers assume I got it because of my race.SO TAKE AWAY AA and you will not have this problem...oh wait I doubt you really want to do that

___ 11. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.Again I do not believe most in the business world say certain minorities are more tardy than others.

___ 12. I can choose public accommodation with out fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated.How many minorities are treated poorly in public accommodation any longer?  And there are some clubs and streets where it is not at all safe to be a white person.

___ 13. I am never asked to speak for all of the people of my racial group.Just was at the beginning of this post (although technically i'm not a WASP, but I am white

___ 14. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk with the"person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.There are plenty of minority managers and leaders.  However, being as they are a minority, there are likely fewer than those of the majority.

___ 15. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.so does this mean if a minority cop or woman cop pulls me over I can blame it on being a White male?  I just got a speeding ticket on the way back to campus for going 48 in a 35, with the 45 MPH sign literally 20 feet in front of me.

___ 16. I can easily by posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children.s magazines featuring people of my race.again it depends on which minority you are in.  I believe business produce what there is consumer demand for.

___ 17. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in .flesh. color and have them more or less match my skin.are you kidding me!?  So start a business and make bandages that are the color of whatever your skin is if you think it will sell well enough for you to make money

___ 18. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.I have been told many times that people are surprised what I am doing with my life considering where I came from.  I believe Bearly is probably the same way.

___ 19. I can walk into a classroom and know I will not be the only member of my race.Depends on where you go to school.  There are plenty of schools that are a majority of minority students.
___ 20. I can enroll in a class at college and be sure that the majority of my professors will be of my race.Unless your insinuating that there are many racist teachers I dont understand why this is a problem.  As you are a minority it is probable that most teachers will not be of your race.[/b]

   Precisely! 

[t...]

Ghost what advantage have I ever received because I am White?

I'm white and well aware of the advantages I have because I'm white. And you are too. I'm also a woman and the daughter of working class parents who didn't go to college and yet I still realize, despite my gender/socioeconomic status, that in our society I was born on third base simply because of the color of my skin (and my parents' and their parents' and their parents'). Whatever your background may be - you were too.  But unlike you, I don't go around pretending that I hit a triple. 

What advantages? All you people talk about is "advantages you know you have."  Yet no one can name any. 

Here's a checklist for you, from sociologist Peggy McIntosh of Wellesley University:

___ 1. I can arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.  There are many communities with more black people than white people, the same goes for other minorities.  Furthermore, why does this matter unless your assuming that a majority of White's are racist toward minorities which I do not believe is the case

___ 2. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.  I do not think that a majority of minorities have been harassed and followed while going shopping any more than others.  If you go shopping in a big city there is a distinct possibility that you may be harassed by someone on the street asking for money regardless of what race you are.

___ 3. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented. [Do you actually watch TV?  Blacks are considered a minority and are on many television shows and in the paper.  Most of the items in the front page of the paper are negative things anyway, would you want to be on the front page?  I also don't know of any WET (white entertainment television) where I can see people of my race almost exclusively.[/b]

___ 4. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization", I am shown that people of my color made it what it is. "I also don't remember any "white History month" and I have heard of many blacks who helped shape our country"

___ 5. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.I dont even know what you are saying by this, I do not believe that many curricular materials say many races are not real.

___ 6. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the food I grew up with, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.Really now, are you going to tell me that there are no minority music artists?  Supermarkets put up food that they can sell, and there are many supermarkets/restaurants which cater to different preferences

___ 7. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial responsibility.again your assuming people are racist, I doubt that a majority of minorities are made fun of for using credit cards, checks, or cash.  I have never seen a store that says "Caucasians can use whatever form of currency they would like, Minorities must pay in cash"

___ 8. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing, or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.Neither are most minorities.  I will admit that there are some minorities who are generalized to "smell offensive" to other people.  I don't think it should result in said race getting rewarded in any way.

___ 9. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.This works both ways.  I worry about racism (AA) or things like a Black beauty pagent and am told I am a self-interested, self-seeking, racist

___ 10. I can take a job or enroll in a college with an affirmative action policy without having my co-workers or peers assume I got it because of my race.SO TAKE AWAY AA and you will not have this problem...oh wait I doubt you really want to do that

___ 11. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.Again I do not believe most in the business world say certain minorities are more tardy than others.

___ 12. I can choose public accommodation with out fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated.How many minorities are treated poorly in public accommodation any longer?  And there are some clubs and streets where it is not at all safe to be a white person.

___ 13. I am never asked to speak for all of the people of my racial group.Just was at the beginning of this post (although technically i'm not a WASP, but I am white

___ 14. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk with the"person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.There are plenty of minority managers and leaders.  However, being as they are a minority, there are likely fewer than those of the majority.

___ 15. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.so does this mean if a minority cop or woman cop pulls me over I can blame it on being a White male?  I just got a speeding ticket on the way back to campus for going 48 in a 35, with the 45 MPH sign literally 20 feet in front of me.

___ 16. I can easily by posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children.s magazines featuring people of my race.again it depends on which minority you are in.  I believe business produce what there is consumer demand for.

___ 17. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in .flesh. color and have them more or less match my skin.are you kidding me!?  So start a business and make bandages that are the color of whatever your skin is if you think it will sell well enough for you to make money

___ 18. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.I have been told many times that people are surprised what I am doing with my life considering where I came from.  I believe Bearly is probably the same way.

___ 19. I can walk into a classroom and know I will not be the only member of my race.Depends on where you go to school.  There are plenty of schools that are a majority of minority students.

___ 20. I can enroll in a class at college and be sure that the majority of my professors will be of my race.Unless your insinuating that there are many racist teachers I dont understand why this is a problem.  As you are a minority it is probable that most teachers will not be of your race.

HOLY


f-ing


*&^%.




ARE


YOU


FOR


REAL?



LIKE...


REALLY?

[lovethelaw2010]

Ghost what advantage have I ever received because I am White?

I'm white and well aware of the advantages I have because I'm white. And you are too. I'm also a woman and the daughter of working class parents who didn't go to college and yet I still realize, despite my gender/socioeconomic status, that in our society I was born on third base simply because of the color of my skin (and my parents' and their parents' and their parents'). Whatever your background may be - you were too.  But unlike you, I don't go around pretending that I hit a triple. 

What advantages? All you people talk about is "advantages you know you have."  Yet no one can name any. 

Here's a checklist for you, from sociologist Peggy McIntosh of Wellesley University:

___ 1. I can arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.  There are many communities with more black people than white people, the same goes for other minorities.  Furthermore, why does this matter unless your assuming that a majority of White's are racist toward minorities which I do not believe is the case

___ 2. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.  I do not think that a majority of minorities have been harassed and followed while going shopping any more than others.  If you go shopping in a big city there is a distinct possibility that you may be harassed by someone on the street asking for money regardless of what race you are.

___ 3. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented. [Do you actually watch TV?  Blacks are considered a minority and are on many television shows and in the paper.  Most of the items in the front page of the paper are negative things anyway, would you want to be on the front page?  I also don't know of any WET (white entertainment television) where I can see people of my race almost exclusively.[/b]

___ 4. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization", I am shown that people of my color made it what it is. "I also don't remember any "white History month" and I have heard of many blacks who helped shape our country"

___ 5. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.I dont even know what you are saying by this, I do not believe that many curricular materials say many races are not real.

___ 6. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the food I grew up with, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.Really now, are you going to tell me that there are no minority music artists?  Supermarkets put up food that they can sell, and there are many supermarkets/restaurants which cater to different preferences

___ 7. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial responsibility.again your assuming people are racist, I doubt that a majority of minorities are made fun of for using credit cards, checks, or cash.  I have never seen a store that says "Caucasians can use whatever form of currency they would like, Minorities must pay in cash"

___ 8. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing, or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.Neither are most minorities.  I will admit that there are some minorities who are generalized to "smell offensive" to other people.  I don't think it should result in said race getting rewarded in any way.

___ 9. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.This works both ways.  I worry about racism (AA) or things like a Black beauty pagent and am told I am a self-interested, self-seeking, racist

___ 10. I can take a job or enroll in a college with an affirmative action policy without having my co-workers or peers assume I got it because of my race.SO TAKE AWAY AA and you will not have this problem...oh wait I doubt you really want to do that

___ 11. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.Again I do not believe most in the business world say certain minorities are more tardy than others.

___ 12. I can choose public accommodation with out fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated.How many minorities are treated poorly in public accommodation any longer?  And there are some clubs and streets where it is not at all safe to be a white person.

___ 13. I am never asked to speak for all of the people of my racial group.Just was at the beginning of this post (although technically i'm not a WASP, but I am white

___ 14. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk with the"person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.There are plenty of minority managers and leaders.  However, being as they are a minority, there are likely fewer than those of the majority.

___ 15. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.so does this mean if a minority cop or woman cop pulls me over I can blame it on being a White male?  I just got a speeding ticket on the way back to campus for going 48 in a 35, with the 45 MPH sign literally 20 feet in front of me.

___ 16. I can easily by posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children.s magazines featuring people of my race.again it depends on which minority you are in.  I believe business produce what there is consumer demand for.

___ 17. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in .flesh. color and have them more or less match my skin.are you kidding me!?  So start a business and make bandages that are the color of whatever your skin is if you think it will sell well enough for you to make money

___ 18. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.I have been told many times that people are surprised what I am doing with my life considering where I came from.  I believe Bearly is probably the same way.

___ 19. I can walk into a classroom and know I will not be the only member of my race.Depends on where you go to school.  There are plenty of schools that are a majority of minority students.

___ 20. I can enroll in a class at college and be sure that the majority of my professors will be of my race.Unless your insinuating that there are many racist teachers I dont understand why this is a problem.  As you are a minority it is probable that most teachers will not be of your race.

This is great.

[MahlerGrooves]

tag

[LHL]

Ghost what advantage have I ever received because I am White?

I'm white and well aware of the advantages I have because I'm white. And you are too. I'm also a woman and the daughter of working class parents who didn't go to college and yet I still realize, despite my gender/socioeconomic status, that in our society I was born on third base simply because of the color of my skin (and my parents' and their parents' and their parents'). Whatever your background may be - you were too.  But unlike you, I don't go around pretending that I hit a triple. 

What advantages? All you people talk about is "advantages you know you have."  Yet no one can name any. 

Here's a checklist for you, from sociologist Peggy McIntosh of Wellesley University:

___ 1. I can arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.  There are many communities with more black people than white people, the same goes for other minorities.  Furthermore, why does this matter unless your assuming that a majority of White's are racist toward minorities which I do not believe is the case

___ 2. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.  I do not think that a majority of minorities have been harassed and followed while going shopping any more than others.  If you go shopping in a big city there is a distinct possibility that you may be harassed by someone on the street asking for money regardless of what race you are.

___ 3. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented. [Do you actually watch TV?  Blacks are considered a minority and are on many television shows and in the paper.  Most of the items in the front page of the paper are negative things anyway, would you want to be on the front page?  I also don't know of any WET (white entertainment television) where I can see people of my race almost exclusively.[/b]

___ 4. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization", I am shown that people of my color made it what it is. "I also don't remember any "white History month" and I have heard of many blacks who helped shape our country"

___ 5. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.I dont even know what you are saying by this, I do not believe that many curricular materials say many races are not real.

___ 6. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the food I grew up with, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.Really now, are you going to tell me that there are no minority music artists?  Supermarkets put up food that they can sell, and there are many supermarkets/restaurants which cater to different preferences

___ 7. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial responsibility.again your assuming people are racist, I doubt that a majority of minorities are made fun of for using credit cards, checks, or cash.  I have never seen a store that says "Caucasians can use whatever form of currency they would like, Minorities must pay in cash"

___ 8. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing, or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.Neither are most minorities.  I will admit that there are some minorities who are generalized to "smell offensive" to other people.  I don't think it should result in said race getting rewarded in any way.

___ 9. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.This works both ways.  I worry about racism (AA) or things like a Black beauty pagent and am told I am a self-interested, self-seeking, racist

___ 10. I can take a job or enroll in a college with an affirmative action policy without having my co-workers or peers assume I got it because of my race.SO TAKE AWAY AA and you will not have this problem...oh wait I doubt you really want to do that

___ 11. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.Again I do not believe most in the business world say certain minorities are more tardy than others.

___ 12. I can choose public accommodation with out fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated.How many minorities are treated poorly in public accommodation any longer?  And there are some clubs and streets where it is not at all safe to be a white person.

___ 13. I am never asked to speak for all of the people of my racial group.Just was at the beginning of this post (although technically i'm not a WASP, but I am white

___ 14. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk with the"person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.There are plenty of minority managers and leaders.  However, being as they are a minority, there are likely fewer than those of the majority.

___ 15. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.so does this mean if a minority cop or woman cop pulls me over I can blame it on being a White male?  I just got a speeding ticket on the way back to campus for going 48 in a 35, with the 45 MPH sign literally 20 feet in front of me.

___ 16. I can easily by posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children.s magazines featuring people of my race.again it depends on which minority you are in.  I believe business produce what there is consumer demand for.

___ 17. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in .flesh. color and have them more or less match my skin.are you kidding me!?  So start a business and make bandages that are the color of whatever your skin is if you think it will sell well enough for you to make money

___ 18. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.I have been told many times that people are surprised what I am doing with my life considering where I came from.  I believe Bearly is probably the same way.

___ 19. I can walk into a classroom and know I will not be the only member of my race.Depends on where you go to school.  There are plenty of schools that are a majority of minority students.

___ 20. I can enroll in a class at college and be sure that the majority of my professors will be of my race.Unless your insinuating that there are many racist teachers I dont understand why this is a problem.  As you are a minority it is probable that most teachers will not be of your race.

Dude, I think you completely missed the point.  I would try to explain all this to you but I wouldn't know where to start.

[Astro]

Do you really think you were going to get into that school anyway? Or is it some pseudo-noble, grand ideal of a meritocracy that you're falsely hiding behind?

Please, indulge us. Why the concern for "equality" now, in this very specific context?

You're it.

this is one of the less clever shticks that i've seen.

also the fact that you tagged ghost to make her "it" implies that you were previously "it", which is to say that you were the previous total idiot.  good job.

I llulzed.

[Astro]

Please, indulge us. Why the concern for "equality" now, in this very specific context?

I don't get bent out of shape over AA, but what do you mean "why the concern for equality now in this very specific context?"  Do you think that the majority of people who are opposed to affirmative action only care about equality when they are negatively affected by policies that promote evaluating candidates based on characteristics like skin color?  I think most people want others to be treated equally regardless of factors like this.

I would disagree.

I think most are self-interested twerps who are largely concerned with other people having "advantages" they do not have, while completely ignoring the advantages they themselves have had in life.

At any rate, I'd just like to hear their rationale, whether they fit my perceptions or not. 

or are you the self-interested twerp that just wants an advantage?  Or maybe your just racist and think that black people aren't as smart or as strong of candidates regardless of other factors in their life?  Or maybe you are racist and just don't like white people?  Personally I don't think a person should receive advantages or disadvantages because of their skin color.  Furthermore, I think most people who disagree with AA wouldn't have as much of a problem with if it were based on factors such as socioeconomic status.

AA has nothing to do with intelligence.  It has to do with basic equality at the macro level.

[Astro]

Ghost what advantage have I ever received because I am White?

I'm white and well aware of the advantages I have because I'm white. And you are too. I'm also a woman and the daughter of working class parents who didn't go to college and yet I still realize, despite my gender/socioeconomic status, that in our society I was born on third base simply because of the color of my skin (and my parents' and their parents' and their parents'). Whatever your background may be - you were too.  But unlike you, I don't go around pretending that I hit a triple. 

What advantages? All you people talk about is "advantages you know you have."  Yet no one can name any. 

Here's a checklist for you, from sociologist Peggy McIntosh of Wellesley University:

___ 1. I can arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

___ 2. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

___ 3. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

___ 4. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization", I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

___ 5. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

___ 6. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the food I grew up with, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.

___ 7. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial responsibility.

___ 8. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing, or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

___ 9. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

___ 10. I can take a job or enroll in a college with an affirmative action policy without having my co-workers or peers assume I got it because of my race.

___ 11. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

___ 12. I can choose public accommodation with out fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated.

___ 13. I am never asked to speak for all of the people of my racial group.

___ 14. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk with the"person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

___ 15. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

___ 16. I can easily by posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children.s magazines featuring people of my race.

___ 17. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in .flesh. color and have them more or less match my skin.

___ 18. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

___ 19. I can walk into a classroom and know I will not be the only member of my race.

___ 20. I can enroll in a class at college and be sure that the majority of my professors will be of my race.

Jesus, I was just thinking of this checklist as I was reading through this thread.  Not sure if it was the same one, but I remembered something very similar to it.