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Author Topic: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?  (Read 60391 times)

BearlyLegal

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2008, 05:08:57 PM »

Ghost what advantage have I ever received because I am White?

I'm white and well aware of the advantages I have because I'm white. And you are too. I'm also a woman and the daughter of working class parents who didn't go to college and yet I still realize, despite my gender/socioeconomic status, that in our society I was born on third base simply because of the color of my skin (and my parents' and their parents' and their parents'). Whatever your background may be - you were too.  But unlike you, I don't go around pretending that I hit a triple. 
I am actually all for AA, but I find the above highly offensive.

I moved to this country when I was 6, grew up in the ghetto, lived on welfare, dropped out of high school, worked full time while paying for a public TTT education, and am only barely being able to start entering the middle class. The only thing my white skin has done for me is help me get my ass kicked in junior high school for being "wonderbread".

Sure, African Americans as a wholesale demographic group are disadvantaged - but there are plenty of individual minorities who have lived much more comfortable lives than me, and I'm far from being the only one.

Ghost

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2008, 05:21:30 PM »

Ghost what advantage have I ever received because I am White?

I'm white and well aware of the advantages I have because I'm white. And you are too. I'm also a woman and the daughter of working class parents who didn't go to college and yet I still realize, despite my gender/socioeconomic status, that in our society I was born on third base simply because of the color of my skin (and my parents' and their parents' and their parents'). Whatever your background may be - you were too.  But unlike you, I don't go around pretending that I hit a triple. 
I am actually all for AA, but I find the above highly offensive.

I moved to this country when I was 6, grew up in the ghetto, lived on welfare, dropped out of high school, worked full time while paying for a public TTT education, and am only barely being able to start entering the middle class. The only thing my white skin has done for me is help me get my ass kicked in junior high school for being "wonderbread".

Sure, African Americans as a wholesale demographic group are disadvantaged - but there are plenty of individual minorities who have lived much more comfortable lives than me, and I'm far from being the only one.

Another hard-lifer!

But anyway, no one is arguing anything close to contrary to what you're saying. We are [implying] that there are policy decisions in place - for a variety of reasons - that tends to consider things in broader terms.

Sorry if you fall through the cracks - you seem as if you'll end up just fine ;)

But we might have to reconsider, with this vast amount of poor white kids that have had to overcome a whole world of problems! Maybe our socioeconomic and demographic calculations are all wrong! Perhaps there really are more than a sliver of minorities in leadership, ownership, and other high level professional positions (we just can't see them because we are so enlightened as to not see a person's skin color)!


mbw

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2008, 05:27:08 PM »

Ghost what advantage have I ever received because I am White?

I'm white and well aware of the advantages I have because I'm white. And you are too. I'm also a woman and the daughter of working class parents who didn't go to college and yet I still realize, despite my gender/socioeconomic status, that in our society I was born on third base simply because of the color of my skin (and my parents' and their parents' and their parents'). Whatever your background may be - you were too.  But unlike you, I don't go around pretending that I hit a triple. 
I am actually all for AA, but I find the above highly offensive.

I moved to this country when I was 6, grew up in the ghetto, lived on welfare, dropped out of high school, worked full time while paying for a public TTT education, and am only barely being able to start entering the middle class. The only thing my white skin has done for me is help me get my ass kicked in junior high school for being "wonderbread".

Sure, African Americans as a wholesale demographic group are disadvantaged - but there are plenty of individual minorities who have lived much more comfortable lives than me, and I'm far from being the only one.

See, this is the very reason I support the current ABA emphasis of moving away from AA to a "diversity-based" recruiting strategy.  It certainly won't be perfect, but if you look at your applicant pool in toto and develop a class from that pool, keeping diversity as your guiding principle, then your disadvantaged background is on par with other applicants' soft factors.

The AA system, as it's been utilized for perhaps the past couple of decades isn't all ponies and daisies for URMs either - there's a general understanding that some flavors of URM are more desirable than others, and there are associated hard feelings at times.  I certainly think, from a strict AA diversity perspective, that any kid who grows up on the Rez should get a higher bump than I; but then, I should probably get a higher bump than someone with a CIBD card but no cultural affiliation.  That's not how its worked in the past, but it seems to be moving towards that with the current goal of "increasing diversity.

ETA:  I re-read those last few sentences and tried to fix them as my point wasn't exactly clear (probably from lack of sleep due to children gacking in the middle of the night.) 
I'm in a lynch mob?  I had no idea.  This is really worrying; I really don't have time for another extra-curricular activity.

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BearlyLegal

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2008, 05:32:58 PM »

Ghost what advantage have I ever received because I am White?

I'm white and well aware of the advantages I have because I'm white. And you are too. I'm also a woman and the daughter of working class parents who didn't go to college and yet I still realize, despite my gender/socioeconomic status, that in our society I was born on third base simply because of the color of my skin (and my parents' and their parents' and their parents'). Whatever your background may be - you were too.  But unlike you, I don't go around pretending that I hit a triple. 
I am actually all for AA, but I find the above highly offensive.

I moved to this country when I was 6, grew up in the ghetto, lived on welfare, dropped out of high school, worked full time while paying for a public TTT education, and am only barely being able to start entering the middle class. The only thing my white skin has done for me is help me get my ass kicked in junior high school for being "wonderbread".

Sure, African Americans as a wholesale demographic group are disadvantaged - but there are plenty of individual minorities who have lived much more comfortable lives than me, and I'm far from being the only one.

Another hard-lifer!

But anyway, no one is arguing anything close to contrary to what you're saying. We are [implying] that there are policy decisions in place - for a variety of reasons - that tends to consider things in broader terms.

Sorry if you fall through the cracks - you seem as if you'll end up just fine ;)

But we might have to reconsider, with this vast amount of poor white kids that have had to overcome a whole world of problems! Maybe our socioeconomic and demographic calculations are all wrong! Perhaps there really are more than a sliver of minorities in leadership, ownership, and other high level professional positions (we just can't see them because we are so enlightened as to not see a person's skin color)!


1) My post did not address AA (which I am in support of), but rather the nonsensical proposition that merely by being white, people start off at "third base". There are millions of white people that never even had the chance to go up to bat.

2) The fact that I am doing reasonably well for myself after 25 years of struggle says nothing about some kind of privilege I have recieved for being white. Sorry - there was no privilege. Like any other kid who grew up in the hood, I have Asthma, I have been mugged, I have had run ins with the law, and went through a horrendous education system. White kids growing up in Podunk, Arkansas don't have it any better than black kids growing up in a Brooklyn ghetto.

3)"another hard-lifer" - It's exactly this kind of dismissive bull that I get offended at. "Oh poor white boy had to live on food stamps!" Hell yeah I did - Just like all the other kids growing up in the slum I grew up in. How the hell am I any better off than them? How dare you tell me that I have somehow been given the golden ticket to life. I earned every single advantage I have, the color of my skin had absolutely nothing to do with it.

4) I never said anything about reconsidering demographics. I am in support of AA specifically BECAUSE of the demographic facts. If you read my original post instead of being a complete shill, maybe you would have seen that.

SteelersandGators

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2008, 05:53:25 PM »

Ghost what advantage have I ever received because I am White?

I'm white and well aware of the advantages I have because I'm white. And you are too. I'm also a woman and the daughter of working class parents who didn't go to college and yet I still realize, despite my gender/socioeconomic status, that in our society I was born on third base simply because of the color of my skin (and my parents' and their parents' and their parents'). Whatever your background may be - you were too.  But unlike you, I don't go around pretending that I hit a triple.  

Wow....I can't believe you typed that and weren't able to realize the HUGE generalization you made.
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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2008, 06:00:39 PM »

Ghost what advantage have I ever received because I am White?

I'm white and well aware of the advantages I have because I'm white. And you are too. I'm also a woman and the daughter of working class parents who didn't go to college and yet I still realize, despite my gender/socioeconomic status, that in our society I was born on third base simply because of the color of my skin (and my parents' and their parents' and their parents'). Whatever your background may be - you were too.  But unlike you, I don't go around pretending that I hit a triple. 

Wow....I can't believe you typed that and weren't able to realize the HUGE generalization you made.

Wow, that is pretty sad.  I know some pretty poor white kids who would really argue with the fact that they were born on third base.  They grew up abused and with drug addicted parents and definitely didn't have much handed to them.  I also know some pretty wealthy black kids who probably were born on third base and have had an easier life than any white kid I know.  And they will tell you that themselves. 

Unlike you, some people dislike AA because there is a real problem behind it which is socioeconomic status and we don't need to go around making ourselves feel warn and fuzzy addressing a much smaller problem when the real problem is much larger and nobody really seems to want to address it.

NYU2011

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2008, 06:19:01 PM »

Ghost what advantage have I ever received because I am White?

I'm white and well aware of the advantages I have because I'm white. And you are too. I'm also a woman and the daughter of working class parents who didn't go to college and yet I still realize, despite my gender/socioeconomic status, that in our society I was born on third base simply because of the color of my skin (and my parents' and their parents' and their parents'). Whatever your background may be - you were too.  But unlike you, I don't go around pretending that I hit a triple. 



What advantages? All you people talk about is "advantages you know you have."  Yet no one can name any. 

mbw

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2008, 06:35:27 PM »

Ghost what advantage have I ever received because I am White?

I'm white and well aware of the advantages I have because I'm white. And you are too. I'm also a woman and the daughter of working class parents who didn't go to college and yet I still realize, despite my gender/socioeconomic status, that in our society I was born on third base simply because of the color of my skin (and my parents' and their parents' and their parents'). Whatever your background may be - you were too.  But unlike you, I don't go around pretending that I hit a triple. 



What advantages? All you people talk about is "advantages you know you have."  Yet no one can name any. 

Here's a checklist for you, from sociologist Peggy McIntosh of Wellesley University:

___ 1. I can arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

___ 2. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

___ 3. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

___ 4. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization", I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

___ 5. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

___ 6. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the food I grew up with, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.

___ 7. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial responsibility.

___ 8. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing, or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

___ 9. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

___ 10. I can take a job or enroll in a college with an affirmative action policy without having my co-workers or peers assume I got it because of my race.

___ 11. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

___ 12. I can choose public accommodation with out fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated.

___ 13. I am never asked to speak for all of the people of my racial group.

___ 14. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk with the"person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

___ 15. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

___ 16. I can easily by posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children.s magazines featuring people of my race.

___ 17. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in .flesh. color and have them more or less match my skin.

___ 18. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

___ 19. I can walk into a classroom and know I will not be the only member of my race.

___ 20. I can enroll in a class at college and be sure that the majority of my professors will be of my race.
I'm in a lynch mob?  I had no idea.  This is really worrying; I really don't have time for another extra-curricular activity.

space for rent.

Outlaw22

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2008, 06:48:31 PM »

Ghost what advantage have I ever received because I am White?

I'm white and well aware of the advantages I have because I'm white. And you are too. I'm also a woman and the daughter of working class parents who didn't go to college and yet I still realize, despite my gender/socioeconomic status, that in our society I was born on third base simply because of the color of my skin (and my parents' and their parents' and their parents'). Whatever your background may be - you were too.  But unlike you, I don't go around pretending that I hit a triple. 

Wow....I can't believe you typed that and weren't able to realize the HUGE generalization you made.

Wow, that is pretty sad.  I know some pretty poor white kids who would really argue with the fact that they were born on third base.  They grew up abused and with drug addicted parents and definitely didn't have much handed to them.  I also know some pretty wealthy black kids who probably were born on third base and have had an easier life than any white kid I know.  And they will tell you that themselves. 

Unlike you, some people dislike AA because there is a real problem behind it which is socioeconomic status and we don't need to go around making ourselves feel warn and fuzzy addressing a much smaller problem when the real problem is much larger and nobody really seems to want to address it.

My point is being misinterpreted. You cannot say that you are white and don't think you have any advantages because of your skin color. You may have other factors that negatively impact you - trust me I'm aware of all forms of oppression - I've experienced sexism, classism, and homophobia. But when it comes to race - the poster I was responding to was insinuating he/she is unaware of the advantages he has because he/she is white. That is absurd.  
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mbw

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2008, 06:54:32 PM »
Oh ok, now it makes sense why Asians, Indians and Persians benefit so much from affirmative action. Oh wait, they get REVERSE AA which makes it harder for them to get into some schools than white people since they are overrepresented.

Why the hell are no steps being taken towards socioeconomic based AA? A poor asian kid from Chinatown and a white kid from a trailer park deserve more preference than Michael Jordan's son.

Now you're mixing apples and oranges.  The poster asked specifically about the advantages of being white, aka white privilege, hence the checklist.

Do Asians benefit from general affirmative action laws?  Certainly, in areas where they are in fact a minority (which is practically everywhere outside of Hawai'i and California) and where there aren't state laws barring AA.  They don't benefit in diversity programs (the current policy of the ABA) because they are not underrepresented in law school, in general - in some geographic areas, Asians are viewed as being less represented than their overall population, and thus might get closer scrutiny.  Same goes for some specific ethnicities, such as Laotian, Khmer, etc.  Once again, the current ABA policy goals are diversity, not affirmative action.  There are no quotas, no "add 10 points to the LSAT" etc.

And you should know, as an AS of Hastings, that there are schools which are aggressively moving towards socio-economic factors trumping all others.
I'm in a lynch mob?  I had no idea.  This is really worrying; I really don't have time for another extra-curricular activity.

space for rent.