Law School Discussion

Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?

Ghost

Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« on: April 03, 2008, 11:14:17 AM »
Do you really think you were going to get into that school anyway? Or is it some pseudo-noble, grand ideal of a meritocracy that you're falsely hiding behind?

Please, indulge us. Why the concern for "equality" now, in this very specific context?

jack24

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2008, 11:18:04 AM »
Do you really think you were going to get into that school anyway? Or is it some pseudo-noble, grand ideal of a meritocracy that you're falsely hiding behind?

Please, indulge us. Why the concern for "equality" now, in this very specific context?

This is a hard question to answer. First of all, if AA didn't exist I still wouldn't have been able to get into my number 1 choice because I wasn't really "on the bubble" anyway.
I'm sure there were a few people on the bubble though and they can cry themselves to sleep.

I'm just bugged because now I have to pay out-of-state tuition at my #3 option, but if I were a black female I would have been accepted to my number 1.

Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2008, 11:24:13 AM »
Please, indulge us. Why the concern for "equality" now, in this very specific context?

I don't get bent out of shape over AA, but what do you mean "why the concern for equality now in this very specific context?"  Do you think that the majority of people who are opposed to affirmative action only care about equality when they are negatively affected by policies that promote evaluating candidates based on characteristics like skin color?  I think most people want others to be treated equally regardless of factors like this.

Ghost

Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2008, 11:27:24 AM »
Please, indulge us. Why the concern for "equality" now, in this very specific context?

I don't get bent out of shape over AA, but what do you mean "why the concern for equality now in this very specific context?"  Do you think that the majority of people who are opposed to affirmative action only care about equality when they are negatively affected by policies that promote evaluating candidates based on characteristics like skin color?  I think most people want others to be treated equally regardless of factors like this.

I would disagree.

I think most are self-interested twerps who are largely concerned with other people having "advantages" they do not have, while completely ignoring the advantages they themselves have had in life.

At any rate, I'd just like to hear their rationale, whether they fit my perceptions or not. 

Ghost

Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2008, 11:27:43 AM »
Do you really think you were going to get into that school anyway? Or is it some pseudo-noble, grand ideal of a meritocracy that you're falsely hiding behind?

Please, indulge us. Why the concern for "equality" now, in this very specific context?

This is a hard question to answer. First of all, if AA didn't exist I still wouldn't have been able to get into my number 1 choice because I wasn't really "on the bubble" anyway.
I'm sure there were a few people on the bubble though and they can cry themselves to sleep.

I'm just bugged because now I have to pay out-of-state tuition at my #3 option, but if I were a black female I would have been accepted to my number 1.


Thank you for your honesty.  :)

Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2008, 12:13:16 PM »
I think most are self-interested twerps who are largely concerned with other people having "advantages" they do not have, while completely ignoring the advantages they themselves have had in life.

I'll bite, and hopefully won't regret it... I don't want to get into a big thing about this, but I would like to see if I can at least clarify for you why people think the way they do. (FWIW, I got in everywhere I applied, so AA didn't hurt me personally. Just so you know where I'm coming from.)

OK, so I think you acknowledge part of the problem people have, which is that a factor that one cannot control playing a big role in admissions. Reasonably smart people can work hard and get a good GPA and a good LSAT score... maybe not what they want, exactly, but at least in theory those are based on how YOU personally perform. Ditto for LORs, extracurriculars, work experience, etc. URM status is the one thing that the applicant has zero control over, yet it often has a huge impact.

But, as you say, lots of people have advantages they can't control: Wealthier people, for example, don't have to work in school, can hire LSAT tutors, grow up with the expectation of getting a good education, etc. So AA just compensates for that, right?

Not really. It's not like all white people are rich and all minorities are poor. Do you really think a black kid whose dad was a dentist should get advantages over a white kid who grew up in a singlewide? I don't. I would be more likely to support some sort of socio-economic AA than a race-based AA. I think it would give more real diversity than current programs as well as be more fair. If people actually have overcome a lot to get where they are, they deserve a boost.

Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2008, 12:26:14 PM »
Do you really think you were going to get into that school anyway? Or is it some pseudo-noble, grand ideal of a meritocracy that you're falsely hiding behind?

Please, indulge us. Why the concern for "equality" now, in this very specific context?

You're it.

Ghost

Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2008, 12:29:44 PM »
Do you really think you were going to get into that school anyway? Or is it some pseudo-noble, grand ideal of a meritocracy that you're falsely hiding behind?

Please, indulge us. Why the concern for "equality" now, in this very specific context?

You're it.

Can't tag me, I'm not real.

Ghost

Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2008, 12:31:31 PM »
I think most are self-interested twerps who are largely concerned with other people having "advantages" they do not have, while completely ignoring the advantages they themselves have had in life.

I'll bite, and hopefully won't regret it... I don't want to get into a big thing about this, but I would like to see if I can at least clarify for you why people think the way they do. (FWIW, I got in everywhere I applied, so AA didn't hurt me personally. Just so you know where I'm coming from.)

OK, so I think you acknowledge part of the problem people have, which is that a factor that one cannot control playing a big role in admissions. Reasonably smart people can work hard and get a good GPA and a good LSAT score... maybe not what they want, exactly, but at least in theory those are based on how YOU personally perform. Ditto for LORs, extracurriculars, work experience, etc. URM status is the one thing that the applicant has zero control over, yet it often has a huge impact.

But, as you say, lots of people have advantages they can't control: Wealthier people, for example, don't have to work in school, can hire LSAT tutors, grow up with the expectation of getting a good education, etc. So AA just compensates for that, right?

Not really. It's not like all white people are rich and all minorities are poor. Do you really think a black kid whose dad was a dentist should get advantages over a white kid who grew up in a singlewide? I don't. I would be more likely to support some sort of socio-economic AA than a race-based AA. I think it would give more real diversity than current programs as well as be more fair. If people actually have overcome a lot to get where they are, they deserve a boost.

What do you believe the reasons (or goals) for affirmative action are?

Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2008, 12:40:59 PM »
Please, indulge us. Why the concern for "equality" now, in this very specific context?

I don't get bent out of shape over AA, but what do you mean "why the concern for equality now in this very specific context?"  Do you think that the majority of people who are opposed to affirmative action only care about equality when they are negatively affected by policies that promote evaluating candidates based on characteristics like skin color?  I think most people want others to be treated equally regardless of factors like this.

I would disagree.

I think most are self-interested twerps who are largely concerned with other people having "advantages" they do not have, while completely ignoring the advantages they themselves have had in life.

At any rate, I'd just like to hear their rationale, whether they fit my perceptions or not. 



or are you the self-interested twerp that just wants an advantage?  Or maybe your just racist and think that black people aren't as smart or as strong of candidates regardless of other factors in their life?  Or maybe you are racist and just don't like white people?  Personally I don't think a person should receive advantages or disadvantages because of their skin color.  Furthermore, I think most people who disagree with AA wouldn't have as much of a problem with if it were based on factors such as socioeconomic status.