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Author Topic: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?  (Read 60600 times)

NYU2011

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #130 on: April 06, 2008, 09:10:04 PM »
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You are just desperately not getting it, aren't you?
I feel like this has become a mutual malady at this point. No reason to keep playing this silly game of ping-pong.

No, you are right - Basketball shorts aren't standard board-room apparel because of racism, not cultural and class expectations. How could I have been so dense?



Quite honestly, dude, you really are not getting it.  She's logically in the right here.  She got your argument, addressed it at its merits, and then countered the basic assumptions underlying it.  Your response has been to repeat the argument that she's already laid bare.


The only people that agree with her are the ones who already did.  An unbiased observer more than likely can clearly see she is wrong.

BearlyLegal

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #131 on: April 06, 2008, 09:30:21 PM »
1.  I just did point to it.  She tried to partly summarize it in her previous post, too.  What do you say to our points?
Very well, I will slow it down a little bit:

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Just how" implies ex nihilo--that our understanding of a necktie  as "professional" is inherent to wrapping a pointy-ended piece of fabric around your neck.
This mode of dress, though it originates among anglo society, is accepted internationally by cultures that have nothing in common with the American culture as a symbol of status and class. Chinese businessmen dress like this. Russian businessmen dress like this. Indian businessmen dress like this. African buisinessmen dress like this. It is no longer native to the anglo culture. Assuming that the idea of having to dress in a mode that is considered professional around the world, regardless of culture, is somehow racist or prejudiciously advantages white people is silly. Even black american leaders (as pictured above) accept this mode of dress as "professional", not as "white".

Further, the idea that baggy jeans are somehow the "black uniform", and is therefore looked down upon for racist reasons is complete nonsense. Baggy jeans became a style statement of the lower class going back to the Gold Rush in the mid-1800's. White roughnecks who wore their dungarees everywhere were always seen as "lower-class" and "unprofessional". This perception has continued into the modern day. Similarly, ill-fitting clothes (a/k/a baggy) are seen as unprofessional around the world, *including* in the professional african american community.

Placing an undue racial emphasis on an issue that has always existed in "professional" dress regardless of race doesn't somehow make dashrashi's point right.


 

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2.  Class, culture and race are necessarily conflated.  I agree that they can be partly separated, and some do it better than others, but I think you sometimes jump to this conclusion improperly in this thread.
They are at the macro level, but at the individual or micro level, they are not. I say again and again that I agree with AA and other programs that help Black Americans as a macro social group specifically because I understand how these factors correlate.

But at the micro level, culture, class, and race can be and often are entirely seperate issues. A white boy who grew up as an orphan and is spending his entire life in the prison system has far, far more in common with underprivileged blacks culturally and in terms of class than he does other "white" people. The continued willful disregard of this very basic fact makes this entire discussion moot.

dashrashi

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #132 on: April 06, 2008, 09:55:08 PM »
I'm out. You're being obtuse for what are clearly self-reassuring reasons. You want me to tell you that you had it hard? Fine, you had it hard. Clearly, there's no such thing as white privilege because some number of white people have it hard. Couldn't possibly be. Whatever was I thinking. And clearly the ways in which they have it hard aren't stemming from a system modeled after institutions that have historically oppressed primarily people of color for racist reasons. Clearly they're completely unrelated. Clearly class and race can be neatly separated at all times. Clearly you can't draw out and analyze common associations between certain qualities and different races that many people (including the powerful) have and use to maintain traditional power structures. CLEARLY.

Jesus H. 
This sig kills fascists.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=dashrashi

Saw dashrashi's LSN site. Since she seems to use profanity, one could say that HYP does not necessarily mean class or refinement.

BearlyLegal

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #133 on: April 06, 2008, 09:56:32 PM »
The only people that agree with her are the ones who already did.  An unbiased observer more than likely can clearly see she is wrong.
Haha, maybe we should ask him!  ;D

BearlyLegal

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #134 on: April 06, 2008, 09:57:21 PM »
I'm out. You're being obtuse for what are clearly self-reassuring reasons. You want me to tell you that you had it hard? Fine, you had it hard. Clearly, there's no such thing as white privilege because some number of white people have it hard. Couldn't possibly be. Whatever was I thinking. And clearly the ways in which they have it hard aren't stemming from a system modeled after institutions that have historically oppressed primarily people of color for racist reasons. Clearly they're completely unrelated. Clearly class and race can be neatly separated at all times. Clearly you can't draw out and analyze common associations between certain qualities and different races that many people (including the powerful) have and use to maintain traditional power structures. CLEARLY.

Jesus H. 
LOL. I haven't said any of this, but ok. Cya!

NYU2011

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #135 on: April 06, 2008, 10:32:28 PM »
you are right, I am wrong in that instance....but if said person was wearing the same in the North East it would not be considered professional.  It is considered professional in some parts of the south because that is what has primarily been worn there in the past as well.  My point is that it is not because it is "white people" clothing that it is considered professional


naturallybeyoutiful

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #136 on: April 06, 2008, 10:36:20 PM »
Modern black leaders:










 ::) Not to be confused with modern leaders of blacks.  JSIA!
Harvard Law: What, like it's hard?

dashrashi

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #137 on: April 06, 2008, 10:36:45 PM »
I am urging people to unpack stuff a little beyond "it's professional because it's professional." Why is that outfit, precisely that, considered "professional"? Was it anything else before it was "professional"? Was it only or primarily worn by certain groups? Which groups?

Etc. Come on, y'all. A little analysis is not that difficult.
This sig kills fascists.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/display.php?user=dashrashi

Saw dashrashi's LSN site. Since she seems to use profanity, one could say that HYP does not necessarily mean class or refinement.

naturallybeyoutiful

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #138 on: April 06, 2008, 10:37:28 PM »
I am urging people to unpack stuff a little beyond "it's professional because it's professional." Why is that outfit, precisely that, considered "professional"? Was it anything else before it was "professional"? Was it only or primarily worn by certain groups? Which groups?

Etc. Come on, y'all. A little analysis is not that difficult.

ITA!
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Astro

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #139 on: April 06, 2008, 10:38:02 PM »
SMH @ "everyone else wears this business stuff too" W/O questioning discourse in which idea of "professionalism" arose and what dominating force propagated it
J, if you didn't bring enough penis for everyone, you shouldn't have brought any penis at all.