Wayne State v. Michigan State

[AllTimeLow]

I visited MSU law a little while back and was rather impressed with what I saw. It was by no means the University of Michigan, but it was a lot nicer than I had envisioned. They also have the backing of Michigan State University, which has quite a bit of funds at their disposal and will likely continue to improve their law school.

[The Nicker]

Where should I live if I decide to go to Wayne ?   how bad is living "in da hood?"

Live in Royal Oak, not downtown.

I've said before that I think Wayne State's program is not on the upswing, however, if I was going there I would certainly live downtown, not in Royal Oak. Despite the mayor's personal problems and financial ineptitude, his priority to improve the downtown area has really worked and I would describe the midtown area where Wayne State is as practically vibrant, relatively safe, and really affordable.

Yeah, Royal Oak is nice, but it's not worth the commute.

[kilroy55]

Wayne State's new dean is coming from my law school.  He is a pompous, arrogant man.  I would avoid going anywhere where is he located. 

[plex]

If you look at the new lawschoolnumbers charts, you will also be able to get some interesting data from last year.

1L Attrition:  MSU: 5.7% WSU: 8.5%
Net Transfers: MSU: 28   WSU: -9
OCI: MSU: 53 (Up 23.26%, 12 DC/NY/CA) WSU: 39 (Up 11.43%, 4 DC/NY/CA)

[Prize Fight Promoter]

MSU has quite a future ahead of it.

[WSUalum2]

   
The post on professors leaving isn't correct.  Wayne State has three profs moving up to fancier schools, not counting Dean Wu (Bambauer to Brooklyn, Davidoff to Ohio State, Moran to Michigan).  Michigan State has one I know of (Mossoff to George Mason).  Both Wayne State and Michigan State have lost the bulk of their IP faculty in the last couple of years: Yu and Mossoff from MSU, and Litman and Bambauer from Wayne State.

[plex]

The "bulk" of IP faculty? You do realize that MSU has over 20 IP classes (admittedly they rotate them) and Wayne has 4 (which they also rotate)?

IP curriculum is the one thing I can say for certain MSU trumps Wayne at pretty easily. It isn't even a close contest.

[WSUAlum1]

Welcome aboard, WSU2!

I think you are forgetting Routel (Indian law), Liebowitz (labor law), and the LW director, who was a v good teacher.  That makes 6 teachers (& the Dean) (BTW--The family law prof is engaged to Bambauer, who is moving to Brooklyn.  How long do you think she'll stay?) They'll replace the LW dir, and maybe one of the others.  I believe they've lost more than they've hired each of the previous 2 years, too.  Also--the business manager is leaving, (3d one to leave in about 5 years) the admissions director left and will not be replaced (there are only 2 people in admissions).  Also only 2 people in career services--in both cases, fewer than 1/2 the staff at MSU/UDM.  Good luck getting your calls returned, or getting help writing a resume.  Last year's 1L class was about 150, and the typical goal is 220 (lowered late last year to 180ish b/c they knew they would not make it b/c they fell to T4).  Next year's class won't be much bigger, unless they just start letting people in regardless of  LSAT/GPA (that'll be good for USNews), which is what the Univ wants 'em to do.

BTW--how's the funding for that new building going?  That's what I thought

If the alums don't get more vocal, I don't know what hope there is for a once great law school

[WSUalum2]

     Thanks, WSU1!  Neither Routel nor Liebowitz counts as departing faculty, because neither were permanent Wayne faculty to begin with; Routel was a visitor who had signed on for a one-year stint, and Liebowitz was a visitor commuting from her home in New York (!).  You're right about the departure of the LW director; I wasn't thinking of him because he's not professor-rank faculty.  They've got authorization from central administration to replace everyone who's gone; how many people they actually hire will depend, as always, on which wannabe law teachers they like and which ones like them.  You're also right that the business manager is retiring; the admissions director left and is being replaced (with somebody better).

    And plex -- yes, I'd say "the bulk" of IP faculty.  MSU lists a lot of IP courses, but after the departures it's got only one IP person on the regular faculty (Candeub), plus one person on the clinical faculty.  Everything else has to be covered by adjuncts.

[WSUAlum1]

Hey WSU2:

glad to hear there are other alums plugged in.  Wish there were more

I reckon we can disagree about the meaning of "faculty" here, but 6 folks who taught last year (& were quite capable and popular) won't be teaching next year.  The school will replace LW dir (good luck finding someone as good), and has been having one hell of a time finding a single tenure track person who will come.  As for "authorization" to replace, there's a big diff bet authorization to replace and replacing (esp at WSU, as you know), and as i mentioned before, I think Wayne has lost more than it has hired for a while, now.  (Who's Litman's replacement?  Bambauer?  How's that working?  How about Dannin's replacement?  Liebowitz?  If she doesn't count, then I guess there isn't one.  Shouldn't Detroit's law school have a labor law prof?).  Glad to hear that they are thinking of replacing the Admissions director (why did it take a year?), but they'll still be staffed far below UDM/MSU.  See above for students' persistent customer service complaints.  I didn't hear about any more staffing in career services or other student service depts, so i guess there won't be any.  Wayne has jacked up tuition about $7K or so in the last few years for profs it can't keep in the hope of fudging its US News #s.  The #s are worse than ever (thank god we made it back to TTT, tho nowhere near where we were), but students are still paying the higher freight.  Sad fact: we're #3 in MI, behind MSU, and nothing is going to change that

PS: Is it true that our 1st choice Dean turned us down for MSU, and then MSU turned her down?  I know the 1st 1/2 is right, but curious about the 2d

Cheers