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Author Topic: Is Boston the only place where USNWR Rankings are Meaningless??  (Read 1862 times)

Naliamegod

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Re: Is Boston the only place where USNWR Rankings are Meaningless??
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2008, 04:43:31 PM »
Rankings generally reflect their national pull more then anything.  When you head start into specific regions, rankings really aren't important.

BearlyLegal

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Re: Is Boston the only place where USNWR Rankings are Meaningless??
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2008, 04:45:40 PM »
I'm reading a lot on here about BC being so much better than BU for jobs in Boston. I don't get this when BU is significantly higher than BC in the rankings and in other stats as well (salaries, LSAT scores, and gpa's). I'm so confused!

man, what are you talking about here?
"significantly" higher?  a big fan of hyperbole, are we? ... There is barely any reputation difference between schools rankes 20-30.  And what is this about better salaries?  Last I checked BC placed better in the 250 largest firms in the US, so I don't really know where you are getting your info. 
BC is more highly regarded in Boston because BU has only been this highly regarded for less than a decade.  BU used to have twice the number of students and didn't touch BC in terms of prestige.  Now they are the same, in ANY market, not just Boston.  Don't do yourself the disservice of believing the US News rankings are a completely true indication of the reputation of a school. 
You are basically on point, as usual, but the bolded isn't true. BC places better in the boston market, while bu places better nationally. These differences are marginal at best, but they do exist, and they account for some of the disparity in the USNEWS.

Penn263

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Re: Is Boston the only place where USNWR Rankings are Meaningless??
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2008, 05:11:57 PM »
I'm reading a lot on here about BC being so much better than BU for jobs in Boston. I don't get this when BU is significantly higher than BC in the rankings and in other stats as well (salaries, LSAT scores, and gpa's). I'm so confused!

man, what are you talking about here?
"significantly" higher?  a big fan of hyperbole, are we? ... There is barely any reputation difference between schools rankes 20-30.  And what is this about better salaries?  Last I checked BC placed better in the 250 largest firms in the US, so I don't really know where you are getting your info. 
BC is more highly regarded in Boston because BU has only been this highly regarded for less than a decade.  BU used to have twice the number of students and didn't touch BC in terms of prestige.  Now they are the same, in ANY market, not just Boston.  Don't do yourself the disservice of believing the US News rankings are a completely true indication of the reputation of a school. 
You are basically on point, as usual, but the bolded isn't true. BC places better in the boston market, while bu places better nationally. These differences are marginal at best, but they do exist, and they account for some of the disparity in the USNEWS.

But the point is that since these differences are marginal they easily change from year to year, and one shouldn't base a decision on such a small margin of difference. From 2002-2004 I believe BC ranked higher than BU, through a small margin, then the margin flipped over the last couple of years; and it can very well flip again by the time one graduates.
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BearlyLegal

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Re: Is Boston the only place where USNWR Rankings are Meaningless??
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2008, 05:21:02 PM »
I'm reading a lot on here about BC being so much better than BU for jobs in Boston. I don't get this when BU is significantly higher than BC in the rankings and in other stats as well (salaries, LSAT scores, and gpa's). I'm so confused!

man, what are you talking about here?
"significantly" higher?  a big fan of hyperbole, are we? ... There is barely any reputation difference between schools rankes 20-30.  And what is this about better salaries?  Last I checked BC placed better in the 250 largest firms in the US, so I don't really know where you are getting your info. 
BC is more highly regarded in Boston because BU has only been this highly regarded for less than a decade.  BU used to have twice the number of students and didn't touch BC in terms of prestige.  Now they are the same, in ANY market, not just Boston.  Don't do yourself the disservice of believing the US News rankings are a completely true indication of the reputation of a school. 
You are basically on point, as usual, but the bolded isn't true. BC places better in the boston market, while bu places better nationally. These differences are marginal at best, but they do exist, and they account for some of the disparity in the USNEWS.

But the point is that since these differences are marginal they easily change from year to year, and one shouldn't base a decision on such a small margin of difference. From 2002-2004 I believe BC ranked higher than BU, through a small margin, then the margin flipped over the last couple of years; and it can very well flip again by the time one graduates.
True enough. They are twin schools, and you wouldn't make a bad decision by choosing either over the other one. Still, the OP's point isn't totally off the wall. The difference between BU and BC by USNEWS alone is the difference between BU and T14. This says something about how bad the rankings are - not necessarily anything about the quality or job prospects of the schools in question.

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Re: Is Boston the only place where USNWR Rankings are Meaningless??
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2008, 05:51:43 PM »
yeah, like other people have said, BU is not ranked "significantly" higher than BC. The two schools' rank flip flop all the time. A few years back, BC was ranked higher than BU. http://www.eagleionline.com/news/2008/4/2/bcls-rankings-in-perspective.html

So employers generally equate confuse the two schools...

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dullashell

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Re: Is Boston the only place where USNWR Rankings are Meaningless??
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2008, 05:56:34 PM »
BC is more highly regarded in Boston because BU has only been this highly regarded for less than a decade.  BU used to have twice the number of students and didn't touch BC in terms of prestige.  Now they are the same, in ANY market, not just Boston.  Don't do yourself the disservice of believing the US News rankings are a completely true indication of the reputation of a school. 

Now BAMF, you're right on point most of the time, but the above statement is itself inconsistent.  I agree that US News is far from a true indication, but then you clearly just relied on US News ranking a decade ago to claim that BU has only been this highly regarded for less than a decade.  My point is that even when BU ranked in the high 20s or low 30s in US News a decade ago, people like Leiter then argued that lawyers and professors viewed BU much higher than its US News ranking.  I'm not sure there's any objective basis to say that we were not as highly regarded a decade or two ago.  In fact, if you look at the number of senior associates and partners at large law firms, BU alum did just as well if not better, which reflects on its reputation at the time.  From whichever angle you compare the history and the alumni of the two schools, BC and BU are quite comparable in all respects (except for BU's half-a-century of seniority).

bamf

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Re: Is Boston the only place where USNWR Rankings are Meaningless??
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2008, 06:00:23 PM »
I'm reading a lot on here about BC being so much better than BU for jobs in Boston. I don't get this when BU is significantly higher than BC in the rankings and in other stats as well (salaries, LSAT scores, and gpa's). I'm so confused!

man, what are you talking about here?
"significantly" higher?  a big fan of hyperbole, are we? ... There is barely any reputation difference between schools rankes 20-30.  And what is this about better salaries?  Last I checked BC placed better in the 250 largest firms in the US, so I don't really know where you are getting your info. 
BC is more highly regarded in Boston because BU has only been this highly regarded for less than a decade.  BU used to have twice the number of students and didn't touch BC in terms of prestige.  Now they are the same, in ANY market, not just Boston.  Don't do yourself the disservice of believing the US News rankings are a completely true indication of the reputation of a school. 
You are basically on point, as usual, but the bolded isn't true. BC places better in the boston market, while bu places better nationally. These differences are marginal at best, but they do exist, and they account for some of the disparity in the USNEWS.

oh come on ... you used to seem like such a nice person, you aren't gonna turn into a troll or a know-it-all 0L on us now, are you?  I think I have, through all my previous posts, proven to be an impartial person in this debate and in general ... however I sincerely dislike misinformation.  There is no way you can say BU places better nationally, it is simply not true.  No outside market is going to say "oh you're top 20% from BC? no no, no job for you ... no, if you were from BU, we might consider you."  BU and BC both have the same top two markets, Boston and New York (and probably LA a a third for both as well).  It is HIGHLY unlikely that employers in  NYC will distinguish between BU, BC, GW, Fordham, etc.  For other markets the difficult thing is getting your foot in the door for an interview because of the regional/ semi-national status of both schools.  And what is the best way to get interviews in non-Northeast markets?  Regional job fairs.  And what two schools run their regional job fairs together?  BU and BC.
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bamf

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Re: Is Boston the only place where USNWR Rankings are Meaningless??
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2008, 06:07:48 PM »
BC is more highly regarded in Boston because BU has only been this highly regarded for less than a decade.  BU used to have twice the number of students and didn't touch BC in terms of prestige.  Now they are the same, in ANY market, not just Boston.  Don't do yourself the disservice of believing the US News rankings are a completely true indication of the reputation of a school. 

Now BAMF, you're right on point most of the time, but the above statement is itself inconsistent.  I agree that US News is far from a true indication, but then you clearly just relied on US News ranking a decade ago to claim that BU has only been this highly regarded for less than a decade.  My point is that even when BU ranked in the high 20s or low 30s in US News a decade ago, people like Leiter then argued that lawyers and professors viewed BU much higher than its US News ranking.  I'm not sure there's any objective basis to say that we were not as highly regarded a decade or two ago.  In fact, if you look at the number of senior associates and partners at large law firms, BU alum did just as well if not better, which reflects on its reputation at the time.  From whichever angle you compare the history and the alumni of the two schools, BC and BU are quite comparable in all respects (except for BU's half-a-century of seniority).

Just to clarify, I wasn't relying simply on US News to support the fact that BU has not always been as highly regarded.  First, as a University, BU has come along greatly in the past few decades, while BC has (again, the University as a whole) has been a little more prestigious within this city since well before JFK declared it the Catholic Ivy (largely because of BCs roots as a University for Irish Catholics, and the socio-political landscape of the City of Boston).  On top of that BU used to be almost twice the size that it is now, and used to have much lower numbers. What happened to BU Law was kind of the opposite of what happened to Florida-Levin when it added (what was it, like 200?) students to its class.

So long as I continue to post on this site I will never disparage BU Law, I think it is a great school.  I just don't get the point of people (especially pre-laws) making broad statements about national placement or academic quality that are based on a severely flawed ranking.

Ugh, ok I really need to go read crim ...


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Around from time to time.  Always willing to answer any Qs about BC, my '06/'07 cycle or law school in general ... PMs work better ...

dullashell

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Re: Is Boston the only place where USNWR Rankings are Meaningless??
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2008, 06:10:50 PM »
No outside market is going to say "oh you're top 20% from BC? no no, no job for you ... no, if you were from BU, we might consider you." 

True, unless the interviewer is an alum from one school.  It's not a reflection on the merit of a school, but there are indications that BU's alum network (some 20000 people) is a bit more spread out than BC's for whatever reason.  

Again, this is not to start a heated BU/BC debate or anything.  I do think they are almost statistically indistinguishable.

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Re: Is Boston the only place where USNWR Rankings are Meaningless??
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2008, 06:16:40 PM »
oh come on ... you used to seem like such a nice person, you aren't gonna turn into a troll or a know-it-all 0L on us now, are you?
Come on dude, let's not take this there. I think we have a great deal of mutual respect, and I love BC as a school. This is uncalled for.


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I think I have, through all my previous posts, proven to be an impartial person in this debate and in general ... however I sincerely dislike misinformation.  There is no way you can say BU places better nationally, it is simply not true. 
I'm sorry dude, but in my experience as a paralegal in NYC Biglaw and at DANY, There are more BU grads in NY than there are BC grads. As I said in the above post, the differences are strictly marginal, but my Vault 15 firm, with offices in NY, DC, Chicago, SF, LA, and a number of international cities has a grand total of *2* BC grads, but *21* BU grads. I'll PM you my firm if you want me to. I'm not spreading some kind of trollish propaganda. I'm telling you what I have experienced in more than half a decade of working in the law in NYC.

Again, this isn't some kind of crack against you or against BC, which is a fantastic school, and places way better in it's native market than BU. It's just what I have personally experienced outside the Boston market. I am still on a WL at BC, and if I get off it, I may well end up attending.

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No outside market is going to say "oh you're top 20% from BC? no no, no job for you ... no, if you were from BU, we might consider you."
Agreed. If anything, I attribute most of the differences to self-selection. Boston natives probably know that BC has a better reputation in Boston, and end up going to school there over BU, and thus stay in Boston. But a difference does exist. Personal experience, my firm's database, and Leiter's study all point to it.

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BU and BC both have the same top two markets, Boston and New York (and probably LA a a third for both as well).  It is HIGHLY unlikely that employers in  NYC will distinguish between BU, BC, GW, Fordham, etc. 
I am sorry dude, but this is just not true. In NYC, Fordham places substantially better than BU, BC and especially GW. These are all regional schools, and alumni bases have a lot to do with hiring. Fordham has way more alumni here than BC/BU/GW.

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For other markets the difficult thing is getting your foot in the door for an interview because of the regional/ semi-national status of both schools.  And what is the best way to get interviews in non-Northeast markets?  Regional job fairs.  And what two schools run their regional job fairs together?  BU and BC.
The end.
I agree with this statement. We don't need to get angry, dude. You know I like BC as a school and you as a poster personally. You helped me out a great deal with anxiety when I was studying for my LSAT, and I always appreciated your posts. This isn't an attack on you or your school - it's just an expression of what I have experienced.