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Author Topic: I HOPE Racism will fade away if I do my part  (Read 3354 times)

jack24

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Re: I HOPE Racism will fade away if I do my part
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2008, 04:58:01 PM »
Fine, you win... I guess society is more racist, I mean goodness... If affirmative action existed in the 1920's people would have accepted it with open arms!  Tiger woods must have magically hypnotized people, White people don't REALLY like to watch him golf.  And we must be racist! I guess the only reason Obama is getting the majority is because he's got a white grandmother. It couldn't be because our country is ready to choose based on qualifications and not skin tone.
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dashrashi

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Re: I HOPE Racism will fade away if I do my part
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2008, 05:20:13 PM »
Fine, you win... I guess society is more racist, I mean goodness... If affirmative action existed in the 1920's people would have accepted it with open arms!  Tiger woods must have magically hypnotized people, White people don't REALLY like to watch him golf.  And we must be racist! I guess the only reason Obama is getting the majority is because he's got a white grandmother. It couldn't be because our country is ready to choose based on qualifications and not skin tone.
You got me... you're brilliant!

I think it's clear now that you're being excessively narrow in how you define "racist." Not to mention conflating eras--now it's the 20s we're talking about?

I seriously don't think that Tiger Woods can be held up as an example of how far we've come on race when the death penalty is still so disproportionately applied as I described above. And I think that to persist in doing so, when it's been explicitly addressed that institutional and systematic racism are much more of an issue than people's purported external attitudes, borders on the disingenuous. For what it's worth.
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jack24

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Re: I HOPE Racism will fade away if I do my part
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2008, 05:26:56 PM »
I already told you that I aggree we need to fix the problem with the death penalty.

I'm talking about society as a whole, not just the justice system.  The best way for me to measure how society thinks is by how they spend their money and what news they are most interested in.

Obama, Oprah, and Tiger are 3 very strong examples of people who most likely wouldn't have been able to succeed in their efforts if this were the 1970s.  
Have we acheived true equality? Maybe not.  But I believe that there are more opportunities for minorities than there were in the 1970s.

I define racism as a belief that one race should have more rights and opportunities than another.  

jack24

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Re: I HOPE Racism will fade away if I do my part
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2008, 05:43:14 PM »
Okay, I'm admitting that my defenition is too Narrow/Incomplete, but my definition isn't wrong.
I'll try to do what I can.  None of you have tried to answer my question though.
What should I do?  What can an individual do to help?

I have one partial solution and you basically mocked it.  

We need to strengthen the family and
strenghten the educational system.

Go ahead and mock that too.

dashrashi

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Re: I HOPE Racism will fade away if I do my part
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2008, 05:47:49 PM »
I already told you that I aggree we need to fix the problem with the death penalty.

I'm talking about society as a whole, not just the justice system.  The best way for me to measure how society thinks is by how they spend their money and what news they are most interested in.

Obama, Oprah, and Tiger are 3 very strong examples of people who most likely wouldn't have been able to succeed in their efforts if this were the 1970s. 
Have we acheived true equality? Maybe not.  But I believe that there are more opportunities for minorities than there were in the 1970s.

I define racism as a belief that one race should have more rights and opportunities than another. 


The bolded strikes me as idiosyncratic and decidedly not universal. Sounds to me like you're picking your methods based on what results you'd like to see. Many other ways of measuring "how society thinks"--surveys, what they do in the jury box, etc, etc, ad nauseum. Your way of measuring is decidedly not the way, and I hope that you can see that. I'm trying to remain civil, but I really am starting to get the sense that you're cognitively invested in not seeing the forest for the trees.
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dashrashi

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Re: I HOPE Racism will fade away if I do my part
« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2008, 05:51:45 PM »
Okay, I'm admitting that my defenition is too Narrow/Incomplete, but my definition isn't wrong.
I'll try to do what I can.  None of you have tried to answer my question though.
What should I do?  What can an individual do to help?

I have one partial solution and you basically mocked it. 

We need to strengthen the family and
strenghten the educational system.

Go ahead and mock that too.

People are objecting to the fact that what you're now calling a "partial" solution you initially presented as a total solution. Which, forgive my language, is horseshit to a very high degree. Sure, people should "teach" their kids to be "less" "racist." But if one really wants to fix the problem, one can do many more things, including but not limited to dedicating one's career to exposing and working to reverse institutional racism. And it is my belief (shared by many others) that simply "teaching" our kids to be "less" "racist" will never be enough to fix America's race problem. And your initial saying that it would be enough was, to be generous, facile and short-sighted.
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jack24

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Re: I HOPE Racism will fade away if I do my part
« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2008, 06:02:28 PM »
Reply to Dash:

I know you haven't read the whole thread, so you probably haven't seen that i've admitted multiple times that I'm naive because I live in a community that really doesn't send anybody to death row.
I'm open minded, and I changed my opinion early on in the discussion.  I understand why you didn't want to read all 7 pages, because you're probably busy being smarter than everyone else.

You think i'm stubborn and stupid because I'm unwilling to see the forest through the trees.  I sort of care what you think, so I'll do my best to explain.

I believe in taking on challenges that are in front of me, and at this moment in my life, I'm focused on raising my children.  As a result, I see their purity and their goodness and I have a hard time believing that, given societies ongoing evolution, children will harbor the same ill will toward other races.

I think we are less racist than we were 30 years ago.  I don't really care if you aggree.
I think the most important thing I can ever do is to be a good father.

Thanks for being civil.  I wouldn't want you to be uncivil toward someone you don't know anything about.  

dashrashi

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Re: I HOPE Racism will fade away if I do my part
« Reply #47 on: March 21, 2008, 06:11:24 PM »
Reply to Dash:

I know you haven't read the whole thread, so you probably haven't seen that i've admitted multiple times that I'm naive because I live in a community that really doesn't send anybody to death row.
I'm open minded, and I changed my opinion early on in the discussion.  I understand why you didn't want to read all 7 pages, because you're probably busy being smarter than everyone else.

You think i'm stubborn and stupid because I'm unwilling to see the forest through the trees.  I sort of care what you think, so I'll do my best to explain.

I believe in taking on challenges that are in front of me, and at this moment in my life, I'm focused on raising my children.  As a result, I see their purity and their goodness and I have a hard time believing that, given societies ongoing evolution, children will harbor the same ill will toward other races.

I think we are less racist than we were 30 years ago.  I don't really care if you aggree.
I think the most important thing I can ever do is to be a good father.

Thanks for being civil.  I wouldn't want you to be uncivil toward someone you don't know anything about. 

I read the whole thread. But thanks for the "smarter than everyone else" thing. I'll agree that I certainly am smart enough to recognize an insult when I see one! So...probably I'll start behaving true to form and tell you to shove your snide little remarks in the proverbially appropriate place for them. Goodness knows I wouldn't want to confuse the regulars.
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Saw dashrashi's LSN site. Since she seems to use profanity, one could say that HYP does not necessarily mean class or refinement.

Majmun

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Re: I HOPE Racism will fade away if I do my part
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2008, 06:18:06 PM »
But how do you feel about puppies?

They taste like chicken.

jack24

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Re: I HOPE Racism will fade away if I do my part
« Reply #49 on: March 21, 2008, 06:24:11 PM »
I read the whole thread. But thanks for the "smarter than everyone else" thing. I'll agree that I certainly am smart enough to recognize an insult when I see one! So...probably I'll start behaving true to form and tell you to shove your snide little remarks in the proverbially appropriate place for them. Goodness knows I wouldn't want to confuse the regulars.

Apparently I'm too full of crap to fit any more in my proverbially appropriate place.

I guess I have too much faith in the goodness of people.  Maybe I should choose a different profession?  I guess I just believe that family holds the key to solving some of the worlds worst problems.  Good mothers and good fathers working together can make a big difference, and apparently many of you believe that I'm full of (Insert preferred expletive)  I guess it's naive to believe that people are less racist when they are raised in a home with a responsible mother and father.
I guess it's naive to believe that as people are less racist, that society will become less racist.
I'm just a dreamer!  but I'm not the only one.

It's been so much fun to have this discussion with all of you. I'm not generally regarded as a naive idiot, and I feel like this has been good preparation for the future.
Thank you for your opinions