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Author Topic: Do you really think Obama can deliver on his promises?  (Read 6968 times)

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: Do you really think Obama can deliver on his promises?
« Reply #60 on: March 13, 2008, 08:49:13 PM »
I am going to require more a wikipedia link.

Non-issue?  Try big issue.  If he were linked to someone other than Obama, let's just say it might be a campaign ender. 

Everything is a non-issued with Barack. 
Experience, a real platform, racist wife, racist preacher, etc. 

Experience?  Are you choosing to purposely ignore my post above which outlines some of his experience or what?


I think I'd respect your argument more if you came clean and just said no matter what Obama does you just flat out refuse to acknowledge his accomplishments and attributes.  In other words, you just don't like the guy.

That's cool. I can respect that.  To each their own.

But don't say stuff like there's no experience when we clearly see that's not the case.  

"A lawyer's either a social engineer or a parasite on society. A social engineer is a highly skilled...lawyer who understands the Constitution of the U.S. and knows how to explore its uses in the solving of problems of local communities and in bettering [our] conditions."
Charles H. Houston

Astro

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Re: Do you really think Obama can deliver on his promises?
« Reply #61 on: March 13, 2008, 11:54:53 PM »
I'm going to keep quoting this until someone "deals" with it.

(Which they won't.)


Obama is not a blank slate. 11 years in elected office provides a long track record that everyone chooses to ignore.

Link me three significant pieces of successful legislation that he has passed. Please.


3?  No problem.  How about 10?  (assuming you meant "sponsored/co-sponsored" instead of "passed" since individuals can't "pass" legislation - that's a job for the 2 houses)


1. The Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006 (law)
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ282.109.pdf


2. The Honest Leadership and Open Government Act of 2007 (law)
http://www.govtrack.us/data/us/bills.text/110/s/s1.pdf


3. The Freedom of Information Act, 2007 Amendment (law)
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ175.110


4. The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Proliferation Act of 2006 (law)
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.larson.html


5. The Healthy Kids Act of 2007 (passed Senate)
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/il05_emanuel/healthy.pdf


6. The State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) Reauthorization Act of 2007 (passed Senate)
http://themiddleclass.org/bill/children039s-health-insurance-program-reauthorization-act-2007-revised-bill


7. The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006 (passed Senate)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Immigration_Reform_Act_of_2006


8. The Dignity for Wounded Warriors Act of 2007 (referred to the Senate Armed Services Committee for review)
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-s713/show


9. Obama co-sponsored legislation with Senator Jim Talent (R-MO) which passed to give gas stations a tax credit for installing E85 ethanol refueling pumps.
http://obama.senate.gov/news/050729-congress_completes_highway_leg/


10. Obama sponsored an amendment that became law providing $40 million for commercialization of a combined flexible fuel vehicle/hybrid car within five years.
http://www.grist.org/feature/2007/07/30/obama_factsheet/




All told, during his first year in the U.S. Senate during the 109th congress in 2005-2006, Obama wrote 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427.

During his eight years as an Illinois State Senator, Obama sponsored over 820 bills.  He introduced 233 regarding healthcare reform, 125 on poverty and public assistance, 112 crime fighting bills, 97 economic bills, 60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills, 21 ethics reform bills, 15 gun control, 6 veterans affairs and many others, including:

  • Welfare legislation
  • Created the Earned Income Tax Credit program that gave over $100 million in tax cuts for families throughout Illinois over 3 years.
  • Expanded early childhood education
  • Enlisted the support of law enforcement officials to draft legislation requiring the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in all capital cases.
  • He passed a law to monitor racial profiling by requiring police to record the race of drivers they stopped. The law was at first very controversial, but due to Obama's skills as a negotiator and bipartisanships, he won the support of the police. During his 2004 general election campaign for U.S. Senate, he won the endorsement of the Illinois Fraternal Order of Police, whose president credited Obama for his active engagement with police organizations in enacting death penalty reforms.
  • Passed what has been quoted as the toughest campaign finance law in Illinois history. The legislation banned the personal use of campaign money by Illinois legislators and banned most gifts from lobbyists. Worked with U.S. Sen. Paul Simon (D-IL), 1988. Before the law was passed, one organization ranked Illinois worst among 50 states for its campaign finance regulations.
  • Created a working, affordable health care plan in Illinois, that covers 70,000 kids and 84,000 adults, where all kids qualify for $40 per child. Obama sponsored and passed this legislation, working with Rod R. Blagojevich(IL Gov.)


J, if you didn't bring enough penis for everyone, you shouldn't have brought any penis at all. 

Astro

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Re: Do you really think Obama can deliver on his promises?
« Reply #62 on: March 14, 2008, 12:17:38 AM »
I'm going to keep quoting this until someone "deals" with it.

(Which they won't.)


Obama is not a blank slate. 11 years in elected office provides a long track record that everyone chooses to ignore.

Link me three significant pieces of successful legislation that he has passed. Please.


3?  No problem.  How about 10?  (assuming you meant "sponsored/co-sponsored" instead of "passed" since individuals can't "pass" legislation - that's a job for the 2 houses)


1. The Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006 (law)
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ282.109.pdf


2. The Honest Leadership and Open Government Act of 2007 (law)
http://www.govtrack.us/data/us/bills.text/110/s/s1.pdf


3. The Freedom of Information Act, 2007 Amendment (law)
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ175.110


4. The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Proliferation Act of 2006 (law)
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.larson.html


5. The Healthy Kids Act of 2007 (passed Senate)
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/il05_emanuel/healthy.pdf


6. The State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) Reauthorization Act of 2007 (passed Senate)
http://themiddleclass.org/bill/children039s-health-insurance-program-reauthorization-act-2007-revised-bill


7. The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006 (passed Senate)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Immigration_Reform_Act_of_2006


8. The Dignity for Wounded Warriors Act of 2007 (referred to the Senate Armed Services Committee for review)
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-s713/show


9. Obama co-sponsored legislation with Senator Jim Talent (R-MO) which passed to give gas stations a tax credit for installing E85 ethanol refueling pumps.
http://obama.senate.gov/news/050729-congress_completes_highway_leg/


10. Obama sponsored an amendment that became law providing $40 million for commercialization of a combined flexible fuel vehicle/hybrid car within five years.
http://www.grist.org/feature/2007/07/30/obama_factsheet/




All told, during his first year in the U.S. Senate during the 109th congress in 2005-2006, Obama wrote 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427.

During his eight years as an Illinois State Senator, Obama sponsored over 820 bills.  He introduced 233 regarding healthcare reform, 125 on poverty and public assistance, 112 crime fighting bills, 97 economic bills, 60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills, 21 ethics reform bills, 15 gun control, 6 veterans affairs and many others, including:

  • Welfare legislation
  • Created the Earned Income Tax Credit program that gave over $100 million in tax cuts for families throughout Illinois over 3 years.
  • Expanded early childhood education
  • Enlisted the support of law enforcement officials to draft legislation requiring the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in all capital cases.
  • He passed a law to monitor racial profiling by requiring police to record the race of drivers they stopped. The law was at first very controversial, but due to Obama's skills as a negotiator and bipartisanships, he won the support of the police. During his 2004 general election campaign for U.S. Senate, he won the endorsement of the Illinois Fraternal Order of Police, whose president credited Obama for his active engagement with police organizations in enacting death penalty reforms.
  • Passed what has been quoted as the toughest campaign finance law in Illinois history. The legislation banned the personal use of campaign money by Illinois legislators and banned most gifts from lobbyists. Worked with U.S. Sen. Paul Simon (D-IL), 1988. Before the law was passed, one organization ranked Illinois worst among 50 states for its campaign finance regulations.
  • Created a working, affordable health care plan in Illinois, that covers 70,000 kids and 84,000 adults, where all kids qualify for $40 per child. Obama sponsored and passed this legislation, working with Rod R. Blagojevich(IL Gov.)


J, if you didn't bring enough penis for everyone, you shouldn't have brought any penis at all. 

BearlyLegal

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Re: Do you really think Obama can deliver on his promises?
« Reply #63 on: March 14, 2008, 02:13:13 AM »
I will deal with it. It's a pretty expansive list. He does have some experience, obviously.

He doesn't have *as much* experience as McCain, but I am generally ok with that.

My main problem with him is not the lack of experience: My problem is that he promises things that he can't and won't deliver. I think this country has been led around by the nose for long enough.

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Re: Do you really think Obama can deliver on his promises?
« Reply #64 on: March 14, 2008, 09:26:06 AM »
I will deal with it. It's a pretty expansive list. He does have some experience, obviously.

He doesn't have *as much* experience as McCain, but I am generally ok with that.

My main problem with him is not the lack of experience: My problem is that he promises things that he can't and won't deliver. I think this country has been led around by the nose for long enough.

Versus a guy who's spent the last, oh, seven years pandering to the religious right he used to rail against?

They BOTH make promises they can't and won't deliver.
I don't get it... 7 years of pandering to the religious right = delivering one non-religious address at an evangelical college; taking back a statement that one of their leaders is not an "agent of intolerance", and running one ad that said that a belief in god helped him overcome some of the problems he had as a POW?

He's not promising things he can't deliver. He told voters in michigan that manufacturing jobs are not coming back - because they are not. He told voters to expect a prolonged stay in Iraq - because that's what we are going to have.

Obama, on the other hand, says he'll deliver us out of a recession, the war,  NAFTA, child testing, etc., all while lowering taxes for the middle class, committing more troops to afghanistan, potentially attacking pakistan, and healthcare, during a time when Social Security is breaking down, inflation is rising, the dollar is being devalued, and our national debt approaches 3 billion dollars.

He literally promises utopia. Unless he's jesus christ, the messiah, or the last prophet, it's not gonna happen. Do you think he's the messiah? Because the message surely is that he can deliver you to the promised land: YES WE CAN!

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: Do you really think Obama can deliver on his promises?
« Reply #65 on: March 14, 2008, 10:41:45 AM »
See, that's the thing.  I like Barack.  I think that I would enjoy "having a beer" with him.  I just don't think that he is ready to take over as POTUS.  Give him some more time in the Senate (U.S. Senate-not the Illinois state Senate) and I believe that he would have a lot of potential.  I think that he will always be too liberal for me, but at least I would feel like we were putting the country into the hands of a seasoned leader. 

Personally, I see a big difference between state legislative experience and being a governor.  As governor you are a one man/woman show in charge of running a state and working with the legislature.  As a U.S. Senator you are constantly dealing with national issues and the White House.  I think state legislators lack some significant experiences that the other two positions receive. 


I would disagree with that position.   There's a reason why this will be the first time in American history that 2 U.S. Senators will go against each other for the presidential general election - they tend not to make the best presidential candidates.  And the longer they're in the Senate, the more difficult it becomes for them to run for president, due to many factors.

Has it been done?  Sure. But when you line up the 43 presidents, being a US Senator is more of the exception to the rule instead of the rule.

That being said, I think John McCain, Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama are all qualified for the Presidency.  See current President of the United States as metric for what = Qualified. The only question is who are you most aligned with?

"A lawyer's either a social engineer or a parasite on society. A social engineer is a highly skilled...lawyer who understands the Constitution of the U.S. and knows how to explore its uses in the solving of problems of local communities and in bettering [our] conditions."
Charles H. Houston

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: Do you really think Obama can deliver on his promises?
« Reply #66 on: March 14, 2008, 11:12:43 AM »
That being said, I think John McCain, Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama are all qualified for the Presidency.  See current President of the United States as metric for what = Qualified. The only question is who are you most aligned with?

i think comparisons with the current president are highly insulting to all parties involved.

You're right.  I should have said all 3 of them are BEYOND qualified if Bush = Qualified.




I will deal with it. It's a pretty expansive list. He does have some experience, obviously.

He doesn't have *as much* experience as McCain, but I am generally ok with that.

My main problem with him is not the lack of experience: My problem is that he promises things that he can't and won't deliver. I think this country has been led around by the nose for long enough.

Versus a guy who's spent the last, oh, seven years pandering to the religious right he used to rail against?

They BOTH make promises they can't and won't deliver.
I don't get it... 7 years of pandering to the religious right = delivering one non-religious address at an evangelical college; taking back a statement that one of their leaders is not an "agent of intolerance", and running one ad that said that a belief in god helped him overcome some of the problems he had as a POW?

He's not promising things he can't deliver. He told voters in michigan that manufacturing jobs are not coming back - because they are not. He told voters to expect a prolonged stay in Iraq - because that's what we are going to have.

Obama, on the other hand, says he'll deliver us out of a recession, the war,  NAFTA, child testing, etc., all while lowering taxes for the middle class, committing more troops to afghanistan, potentially attacking pakistan, and healthcare, during a time when Social Security is breaking down, inflation is rising, the dollar is being devalued, and our national debt approaches 3 billion dollars.

He literally promises utopia. Unless he's jesus christ, the messiah, or the last prophet, it's not gonna happen. Do you think he's the messiah? Because the message surely is that he can deliver you to the promised land: YES WE CAN!

Look, I don't know about all this messiah business from any of these candidates but I will say this...  You're all pre-law students or law students so I'll assume you all know how American Government works and the roll the President has in the Executive branch in terms of "Delivering on promises."  We all know this is not a monarchy where the President gets to say "We're going to war in Iraq" and we, as a Nation, are just thrust into....wait a minute.  D'oh!.  That did happen.

Sorry couldn't resist the opp to jab Bush one more time.

But seriously, I think the important thing is this: America is becoming less and less partisan -  the next President has GOT TO be able to do the same in order to get things done.   That's actually one of the things that I liked about McCain until the Rush Limbaughs of the world chastized him for reaching across the aisle.  Whether he'll hold onto that remains to be seen, but if keeps it up it will make it very difficult for Obama who has made a career of reaching across the aisle to get things done.  That's why Independents are so attracted to these two candidates and not so much to Hillary.

So do I think that Obama will be able to delivery on his promises - for the most part yeah. I recognize that its not up to him, we do have 3 branches of government that run their own show.  However, as far as somebody who can reach out to both the Republicans and the Democrats, sure, I think Obama can do that more effectively than the other two candidates in order to get things done in Congress.

Just my 2 cents.
"A lawyer's either a social engineer or a parasite on society. A social engineer is a highly skilled...lawyer who understands the Constitution of the U.S. and knows how to explore its uses in the solving of problems of local communities and in bettering [our] conditions."
Charles H. Houston

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Re: Do you really think Obama can deliver on his promises?
« Reply #67 on: March 14, 2008, 12:12:24 PM »
I've been away from the discussion for a while, but I'm really curious to hear your opinions.  Iran has said they want to eliminate Israel, and they have expressed extremely violent opinions about the western world.  Should they be allowed to Develop Tactical Nuclear weapons?  And other than force, how can we stop them if they are determined?

BearlyLegal

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Re: Do you really think Obama can deliver on his promises?
« Reply #68 on: March 14, 2008, 01:20:23 PM »
Look, I'll even go so far as to admit (as I have in the past), that Obama may be a good president, if he can keep some of his commitments (though I doubt he can, if he at least tries, he will be far superior to the last 2 presidents).

My primary concern is this: These are both candidates who reach across the aisle; but when the legislature is stacked with representatives of Party A, and the President is a member of party A, there is a clear breakdown in the fundamental system of checks and balances. Historically, more pork legislation is passed when there is collusion between the legislature and the executive, and special interests have much more power during these times.

I have observed John McCain go against his own party in the past to cut pork spending and attack even right-wing special interests. I am sure that if he is the president, he will be a sufficient foil to the democratic house and senate.

If Obama gets in office, I sincerely doubt that he will veto bills that are strongly influenced by left-wing special interests. This kind of intra-party collusion, and one-party control of our government is dangerous.

Under Clinton, the republicans generally behaved themselves fiscally; because they knew that the opposing party president could veto their outrageous initiatives. As soon as bush took office, this limit was no longer in place, and it was like an orgy of decadence.

I don't believe that the democratic party (or politicians in general, regardless of political affiliation), are capable of resisting these kinds of urges once they gain total control of a government.

I have said it before, and I'll reiterate it again: If single-party left-wing control is bad in China and in Venezuela, it will not be good here. If single-party right-wing control is bad in modern Russia, it will not be good here. What sets our political system apart is the compromises that have to occur under checks and balances. Single-party hegemony undercuts this system, and exposes us to serious risk of corruption.

I have been an admirer of John McCain for years, for being a republican who stood against most of the BS of his own party. I am willing to admit that Obama shows potential, and could be good for our country. But this is a larger political system than any one man. Who do you think would be most likely to reign in the excesses of the democratic legislature?

BearlyLegal

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Re: Do you really think Obama can deliver on his promises?
« Reply #69 on: March 14, 2008, 01:23:52 PM »
Simple question: If Republicans controlled Congress right now, would you still be voting for McCain?
Simple answer: No. I voted Kerry last election even though I utterly hated the guy.