Law School Discussion

All about TRANSFERRING! (after 1L year)

Jets

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Re: All about TRANSFERRING! (after 1L year)
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2008, 04:54:52 PM »
Chad.... why not transfer to BC or BU from GW?  I really want to practice in Boston after I graduate?

Transferring is a very, very difficult thing to do -- and I don't mean in terms of getting the grades you need to do it (that's easy comparatively...seriously). It's difficult because you effectively have to start over at a new school, and you lose -- to some extent anyway -- a lot of what you spend 1L building. More specifically 1) it's unlikely you'll stay in touch with many of your peers after transferring -- this may or may not matter to you, but from a "networking" perspective, it is a relevant consideration; 2) you'll lose any personal connection you have with a professor; 3) you'll lose any skills boards you make, although you could keep it on your resume as something you did at GW it isn't quite as impressive when it's clear you only "did" it for 1 year (I.E. moot court, mock trial, etc.); 4) it's virtually impossible to transfer onto law review or a good journal as a transfer although it is "technically" possible; 5) you have to relocate your life, and potentially at the last minute -- this means you'll be in a state of "flux" throughout the spring not literally not knowing where you'll be in the fall; 6) you lose your grades...if you have a 4.0 after 1L year, you are basically assured a spot in the Top 10% throughout LS. Transferring takes this away (though, of course, you OCI with your 1L grades).

That said, it can be a worthwhile decision if you have a compelling family reason or simply want to go to a better school. For you, BU/BC fit into the former category (it seems). However, I'd caution you against making the move regardless because if you do well enough to transfer to either of those schools, you'd be fine for Boston anyway. And, honestly, both are -- at best -- "equal" to GW. If you really want to be in Boston, I'd suggest that you don't go to GW at all. If you do, you should plan on staying here if you're not looking to transfer to a school that really is considerably better.

Anecdotally, I'm a 1L w/ what seem to be very good transfer possibilities, and I'm nevertheless very reluctant to commit myself to making a switch for the reasons outlined above -- even if I could, in good faith, attempt to transfer to HYS.

ETA: When I say "don't come here if you don't want Boston" I don't mean GW doesn't place well there -- I honestly have no idea about that. But, obviously, try to go to BU or BC first if possible if Boston's the end goal.

t L

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Re: All about TRANSFERRING! (after 1L year)
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2008, 05:02:34 PM »
To transfer to those schools from GWU, you need ~3.7 (top 15%) which is the same as what you'll generally need for GULC. NYU is probably a bit easier to get into as it's slightly more transfer friendly. But if you have around a 3.7, you can feel pretty safe with it (the database linked reflects this to be true at basically all schools in GW's rank range)

Most accepted to NYU and Columbia from 31-75 schools were top 1-2%, but there are a couple around 5-10%.  From T30 schools, most seem to be around top 10% but there are a few as high as 15%.

These are very small sample sizes...

Thanks guys.

So from these figures, I'm figuring from Michigan or UVa, top 25% or better would be competitive at Penn, NYU, and Columbia.  That's going to be a tall order.

Re: All about TRANSFERRING! (after 1L year)
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2008, 05:13:37 PM »
Thanks guys.

So from these figures, I'm figuring from Michigan or UVa, top 25% or better would be competitive at Penn, NYU, and Columbia.  That's going to be a tall order.

Maybe, but why would you want to transfer from Michigan or Virginia to those schools?

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Re: All about TRANSFERRING! (after 1L year)
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2008, 05:24:39 PM »
Maybe, but why would you want to transfer from Michigan or Virginia to those schools?

For personal reasons, I really need to be as close to NYC as possible, but I'm not willing to go to Fordham type schools.

Worst-case scenario:  I'm hoping I can last the two years, and then do a visiting student thing for 3L, but that's going to be hard.

Re: All about TRANSFERRING! (after 1L year)
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2008, 08:06:27 PM »
From GW to BC?  (BC allowed 17 transfers in last year)
From GW to BU?  (BU allowed 6 transfers in last year)
From GW to Georgetown? (GT allowed 100 transfers last year(!))
From GW to Harvard? (Harvard allowed 34 transfers in last year)


i'm assuming that you got this from the aba data sheets on lsac....i think you're reading the info incorrectly; each school did not "allow" that number of transfers in that particular year.  The numbers reported are the ACTUAL numbers that transferred in and out.   really, each school most likely accepted more students than those that actually transferred in.  how much more is the big question.

Jets

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Re: All about TRANSFERRING! (after 1L year)
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2008, 08:16:02 PM »
Chad.... why not transfer to BC or BU from GW?  I really want to practice in Boston after I graduate?

Transferring is a very, very difficult thing to do -- and I don't mean in terms of getting the grades you need to do it (that's easy comparatively...seriously). It's difficult because you effectively have to start over at a new school, and you lose -- to some extent anyway -- a lot of what you spend 1L building. More specifically 1) it's unlikely you'll stay in touch with many of your peers after transferring -- this may or may not matter to you, but from a "networking" perspective, it is a relevant consideration; 2) you'll lose any personal connection you have with a professor; 3) you'll lose any skills boards you make, although you could keep it on your resume as something you did at GW it isn't quite as impressive when it's clear you only "did" it for 1 year (I.E. moot court, mock trial, etc.); 4) it's virtually impossible to transfer onto law review or a good journal as a transfer although it is "technically" possible; 5) you have to relocate your life, and potentially at the last minute -- this means you'll be in a state of "flux" throughout the spring not literally not knowing where you'll be in the fall; 6) you lose your grades...if you have a 4.0 after 1L year, you are basically assured a spot in the Top 10% throughout LS. Transferring takes this away (though, of course, you OCI with your 1L grades).

That said, it can be a worthwhile decision if you have a compelling family reason or simply want to go to a better school.

So . . . okay, I'm guessing you're not of the opinion that HYSCCN trumps the top of the class at, like, BC?  It seems that most people on this board would say that even bottom-feeders at these schools probably have better job prospects than even the very top of the class at a T25, but I could be wrong.
 



It may well be that most people on the board would say that, but I vehemently disagree. Vehemently. Job-wise, you would be measurably better off at the very top of the class at a school like BC than the very bottom at HLS. When I'm talking very top, I'm not talking Top 15%...I'm talking top 1-2%. Bear in mind that people with those grades could very well transfer up to HLS -- it's not like they're staying at their school because they can't do any better. They're functionally just as good and can land all the prestigious clerkships, etc. The point isn't so much about how much better HYSCCN is as it is about how attenuated the difference is once you're literally one of the very best students at your lower-ranked school.

And as far as cosmo's point about transferring to Cornell...definitely a waste with top-notch grades at a worse school. My gut tells me it's a waste to transfer to leave top 1% at any Top 25 school for any school other than HYS, and I'm not even sure it's the best decision to transfer to HYS given all the other less tangible factors I mentioned before. But take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, because I'm still putting together transfer applications despite my ambivalence.

Re: All about TRANSFERRING! (after 1L year)
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2008, 09:13:34 PM »
I guess this is what I am wondering about -- especially because I don't think that transferring up presents a dichotomy between bottom-of-barrel at a top school v. top student at a less prestigious school (it's probably more like median/no law review at a top school v. top student at a lower school).  For various reasons I've been thinking about transferring as a possibility if I do well at BC next year, because on the one hand, this board among other things has sort of put the fear of God in me about not going to an uber-elite school -- or at least, has made me consider whether certain opportunities that the T6 would afford are things I might actually want.  But on the other hand, before I started frequenting discussion boards I would have enthusiastically agreed with your opinion about the prospects for a top student at a T30.  Plus, I feel as if most people on here don't actually know what the hell they're talking about.

I have some friends from undergrad who have done very well at some T15-30 schools and are considering transferring, so I asked them about this and they've expressed the same ambivalence . . .

So anyway, I guess what I was asking was how you saw the cost-benefit.  I mean, you are putting in transfer apps, after all -- what are you hoping to get out of transferring?  Or, rather, how are you limited at the top of GW's class, and where would you have to go and how well would you have to do there in order for these limitations to be removed?

The reason that so much emphasis is placed on going to the best school you can is because it's a safety net. If you screw something up and end up at the bottom of your class at Harvard it is much easier to get a good job. If you go to BC and end up at the bottom of your class it could make things much more difficult. This concern is moot after your first year if you perform well. If you are in the top 15% at any T30 school you are going to be just fine and if you're in the top 1-2% your options will likely be just as good as most any student at HYS. So, if you're already doing that well why change things up and transfer? You can stay at the same school, keep your friends, do moot court and law review, and just enjoy life. You may even get a scholarship to stay, although I'm not sure how many schools do that.

Re: All about TRANSFERRING! (after 1L year)
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2008, 09:19:51 PM »
Regarding HLS transfers, I've also heard that they only take students that they would have seriously considered admitting as 1Ls (e.g., LSAT and UGPA are up to "standard"). 

I don't know if this is absolutely true, but it may be something to factor in.

Re: All about TRANSFERRING! (after 1L year)
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2008, 09:41:40 PM »
Regarding HLS transfers, I've also heard that they only take students that they would have seriously considered admitting as 1Ls (e.g., LSAT and UGPA are up to "standard"). 

I don't know if this is absolutely true, but it may be something to factor in.

I have heard the same, but based on the data from the yahoogroup, I kind of doubt this is actually the case.  That is, unless the school claims they seriously considered applicants with the following figures: 160/3.4, 176/2.5, 162/4.0, 162/2.98, 160/2.85, 165/3.85. 

Re: All about TRANSFERRING! (after 1L year)
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2008, 09:46:09 PM »
Top 15% at a top 30 school is not going to help get you into academia.

Also, moot court, law review, and top grades are all possible (and likely) as a transfer.  Most transfers don't see a huge GPA hit.  Fewer curved classes and more seminars help guarantee that.

Not sure if you were referencing my post, but I realize top 15% won't help for academia. I just said you'll be fine, meaning you can get a job that you might actually like. Top 1-2% is probably a different story, but I won't say anything because I'm just a clueless 0L.

However, I would agree that if you want academia and can transfer to HYSCCN then I would probably do it. The likelihood will probably increase.