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Total Idiot Tagger

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Re: States ending AA
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2008, 07:18:43 PM »
But you realize the biggest beneficiaries of AA as a whole are white men? 

The reason is not related to race, but that more and more women are are entering the professional ranks.  Of the women, white women represent the largest percentage.  When you consider that the current standard of living typically requires a 2-income household, two professional wage-earners do much better than a single wage-earner.  When you break down the demographics white/asians as a whole have higher percentages of both sexes with professional degrees, and double the earning power.  This also reduces the necessity of the male to maximize earnings, given the margin of slack is in the female's income.

 

simonsays

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Re: States ending AA
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2008, 10:26:59 PM »
It's not so difficult when you assimilate the data on household (v. individual) incomes, education, and the fact that median household income for some minority groups are declining. The effect is more prominent with dual income households with college degrees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluence_in_the_United_States

"The US Census Bureau offers income data by household and individual. It is to be noted that 42% of households have two incomes earners;"

"The top 5% of households, three quarters of whom had two income earners, had incomes of $166,200 or more,[8] with the top 10% having incomes well in excess of $100,000."

"incomes for those employed, full-time, year-round and over the age of twenty-five ranged from $20,826 ($17,422 if including those who worked part-time[4]) for those with less than a ninth grade education to $100,000 for those with professional degrees...Of those with a master's degree, nearly 50% were among the top quarter of income earners (top third if including those who work part time)."

"As mentioned earlier in the article 42% of households have two or more income earners, 76% of households with six figure incomes have two or more income earners.[8] Furthermore people are most likely to marry their professional and societal equals. It therefore becomes apparent that the majority of households with incomes exceeding the six figure mark are the result of an economic as well as personal union between two economic equals. Today, two nurses, each making $55,000 a year, can easily outearn a single attorney who makes the median of $95,000 annually"

then, you realize the degree of the boost from individual to household income for whites and asians is most likely due to two college educated wage-earners:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/84/Race_6_figure_household_and.png

Oh yea, and thanks to TotalIdiotTagger for creating a new account, solely for the purpose of trying to bring recognition to others...  You'll go far in life



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Re: States ending AA
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2008, 09:28:13 PM »
 
Oh, so as long as there are Whites IN America, then AA should continue-because as long as there are Whites, there will be oppression? 

This is why I don't take people in favor of AA seriously. 

I guess we should just ignore the historical economic exploitation of African Americans in America, which has ultimately contributed to wide disparities in income and earning potential.  Or maybe we should just ignore the historical judicial exploitation of African Americans in America, which has contributed to the prison industrial complex and the weakening of the African American family structure.  Or maybe we should just ignore the notions of white supremacy and black inferiority which many of you hold dear to your hearts.  Or maybe all of that is irrelevant…. ???

Bottom line, one's privilege or disadvantage is often influenced by their individual circumstances inherited at birth.  There are various environmental and/or societal factors that could have a negative impact on one's individual merit.  Hence, one’s individual potential cannot be comprehensively measured by “merit.”

Just because a person has less credentials (lower gpa, lsat, experience) does not mean that he or she will not supersede top tier students in the classroom or in the workplace.  Despite having a disadvantaged background and/or mediocre credentials, AA provides minorities the opportunity to show and prove their individual potential .  AA also contributes to diversity.  But I guess the classroom and the workplace should not mirror the diverse country that we live in. 

mikephelps

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Re: States ending AA
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2008, 06:23:39 PM »
I guess I just don't get it.  The LSAT should be the great equalizer.  I mean, it's a test that you study for, so why should being a black female mean that you can score 10/12 points less than a school's median and still get in?  I know a few well to do black chicks who went to my school.  Why should they get the big LSAT boost?  I guess AA is wrong when it's about color.  If you are poor, disadvantaged, and didn't have the benefit of a good education, a little AA is great, but if you're some well off person of color who had access to a decent education you're kind of cheating the system, right? 

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Re: States ending AA
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2008, 08:17:19 PM »
I think some of us either missed or ignored a couple of very important history lessons. Cougar, none of your examples compare to the 300+ years of slavery and the 90 or so years of Jim Crow that African Americans have experienced in America. As a result, there never has been, nor will there ever will be true equality this country.  AA provides educational and work opportunities for students who have conquered significant generational and environmental obstacles.  I guess it's easy for one who is privileged to ignore the insidious and egregious circumstances that African Americans have experienced over time, and continue to experience in today's society.   

Your assumption that these statistics are based off of "many minority children who CHOOSE not to finish high school and pursue a college education" is just plain ignorant. News flash kind sir: Many students from urban backgrounds live in single parent, or no-parent homes, where they are forced to provide for themselves at a young age.  Instant gratification becomes a mode of survival when there are economic burdens that hinder you from obtaining simple necessities like food, clothes and shelter.  While you probably received guidance and financial assistance from mommy and daddy, many kids from urban environments begin working in the 9th or 10th grade, and work from then until they die.  Take that into consideration when you are complaining about how the school of your dreams rejected you or your buddy for a student of color with a 3.5/ 150.

I honestly do not expect one who has absolutely no history of disadvantage to relate to the concept of being disadvantaged, underprivileged, discriminated against, and deprived of various opportunities due to race and economic instability.  AA policies contribute to creating more equitable opportunities and ultimately leveling the playing ground for disadvantaged groups.

Mike, How can one cheat a system that once labeled him as 3/5ths of a man? Maybe he is just getting what he worked for.


 

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Re: States ending AA
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2008, 01:45:13 AM »
I believe that the personal attacks began when you called me an idiot, and thanked me for waisting your time, however, I do apologize for the sarcasm. The "some URM stole my spot Theory" is frequently used in the AA debate and it was actually in response to Phelps, not you.
 
I understand your argument cougar but i disagree.  You are right, Blacks have had more opportunities in the last 50 years, but covert discrimination (gov. policies & in the workplace) and inequality remains to be an issue for blacks in America.  I guess the problem is that I am an advocate for the "socialist, entitlement minded, welfare state like Hillary and Barack want," so that govenment can completely fulfill it's purpose to promote quality of life, the personal opportunity to succeed, and to support persons who are unable to care for themselves.  I feel that AA should be a never ending program because it promotes the personal opportunity to succeed. 

I am new to this message board, and I appreciate the diverse prespectives and all arguments presented.  Thank you.

yoyodawg

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Re: States ending AA
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2008, 10:58:30 AM »
According to O'Connor and the Supreme Court, we won't have AA programs in 25 years or so. See Grutter v. Bollinger.

So there's only 25 years worth of useless debate left!

Get it in while you can kids.

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Re: States ending AA
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2008, 12:05:59 PM »
lol @ "yoyodawg" and "get it while you can kids."  I love it.
A lot can happen in 25 years my friend. 

The revolution will not be televised. 


Outlaw22

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Re: States ending AA
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2008, 12:32:00 PM »
Do you really think the AA policies we've had in this short period of time since the civil rights movement have made up for the "equal opportunity" damages of 300 + years of slavery and 90+ years of Jim Crow Laws? Do you think it's even come close? Until you can make a case for that, you have no business talking about how AA needs to end. 400 years of enlavement, discrimination, disenfranchisement, hate crimes, lynching, second class citizenship, and the list goes on...and you think in these few decades of AA policies we're all on equal footing again? That's simply absurd.
Penn Law Class of 2011

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Re: States ending AA
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2008, 02:00:46 PM »
Bless you Outlaw.