Law School Discussion

WHY is NYU ranked HIGHER than COLUMBIA?!?!?

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Re: WHY is NYU ranked HIGHER than COLUMBIA?!?!?
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2008, 01:22:24 PM »
Yes.  While nearly every student at all of the schools will get market, V10s (and PPP leaders) recruit deeper into HS's class than Columbia's.

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Re: WHY is NYU ranked HIGHER than COLUMBIA?!?!?
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2008, 01:22:54 PM »
according to a study kicking around a while ago, us news converts LSAT score into percentile before adding it into their calculations. as a result, as schools get into the 170s, the marginal value of increases in their median lsats decreases significantly. im pretty sure 172 or so is 99%, so increasing your median above that nets you very little. this is part of why Yale and Stanford consistently beat Harvard despite the latter having an LSAT median 4-5 points above theirs. This also explains the more drastic ranking shifts in schools with LSAT medians in the 160s. Each time they gain a point of LSAT, they get a 4-5% boost.

this means that NYU's slight edge in GPA is probably doing a lot more for its usnews score than columbia's slight LSAT edge is doing for it. that, combined with independent expenditures, is probably your answer.

Very interesting post. It's also a great argument for getting off rankings within the T14 and switching to bands. There's no point in ranking HYSCCN.

Y places better than HS in super prestigious Academia and Clerkships.  HS place better than CCN in BIGLAW.  Why is there no point to ranking them?

Sorry, not clear. Ranking them as follows: Band 1: HYS Band 2: CCN Band3: etc Band 4: etc

Differences between HYS and CCN are clear. Within each, less clear.

Credited.

Re: WHY is NYU ranked HIGHER than COLUMBIA?!?!?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2008, 01:23:56 PM »
Yes.  While nearly every student at all of the schools will get market, V10s (and PPP leaders) recruit deeper into HS's class than Columbia's.

you're basing this on what data now?  just curious, not necessarily disputing.

and i would split Y and HS into two different bands.

Re: WHY is NYU ranked HIGHER than COLUMBIA?!?!?
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2008, 03:23:49 PM »
i kind of wish that he would answer my question regarding source.  not a big deal really, i just don't want to be left hanging.

Re: WHY is NYU ranked HIGHER than COLUMBIA?!?!?
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2008, 04:24:46 PM »
Maybe it has to do with the professors that have recently left Columbia?

Re: WHY is NYU ranked HIGHER than COLUMBIA?!?!?
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2008, 08:53:46 PM »
definitely choose Columbia over NYU. I guess they're probably equal in NYC, but I think nationally and internationally, Columbia is unquestionably better. Always choose the Ivy.

Re: WHY is NYU ranked HIGHER than COLUMBIA?!?!?
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2008, 09:07:27 PM »
according to a study kicking around a while ago, us news converts LSAT score into percentile before adding it into their calculations. as a result, as schools get into the 170s, the marginal value of increases in their median lsats decreases significantly. im pretty sure 172 or so is 99%, so increasing your median above that nets you very little. this is part of why Yale and Stanford consistently beat Harvard despite the latter having an LSAT median 4-5 points above theirs. This also explains the more drastic ranking shifts in schools with LSAT medians in the 160s. Each time they gain a point of LSAT, they get a 4-5% boost.

this means that NYU's slight edge in GPA is probably doing a lot more for its usnews score than columbia's slight LSAT edge is doing for it. that, combined with independent expenditures, is probably your answer.

Half true for Stanford, not true for Yale.

Median LSATs (from most recent official ABA data)
Y: 173
H: 172
S: 170

Yale consistently beats Harvard because it has higher median LSAT and higher median GPA (at least partially driven by class size). Stanford does not consistently beat Harvard. The two jockey for position quite a bit.

Re: WHY is NYU ranked HIGHER than COLUMBIA?!?!?
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2008, 09:51:12 AM »
Yes.  While nearly every student at all of the schools will get market, V10s (and PPP leaders) recruit deeper into HS's class than Columbia's.

This is almost certainly false.

Re: WHY is NYU ranked HIGHER than COLUMBIA?!?!?
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2008, 09:55:07 AM »
As my name would imply, I'm arguably  biased.  But I will say that NYU's ranking is a statistical fluke, caused in part by the poor methodology of USNews rankings.  NYU is a great school, but Columbia is clearly better in almost every way.  That it is why it was very easy for me to turn down NYU (and the large scholarship they offered me).

USNews only put NYU ahead of Columbia in their last ranking.  Who knows if it will hold this spring?  The real point, though, is that you should not put any credit to small differences in rank in the USNews list.

Re: WHY is NYU ranked HIGHER than COLUMBIA?!?!?
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2008, 11:44:20 AM »
One of the problems with banding is that our banding just doesn't match US News's system.
Chicago is closer to Cornell than it is to NYU in the scoring.  Harvard is right in the middle of Yale and Penn by that scoring.

We say YHS>CCN>MVPB>CNDG (though people don't really talk about CNDG, they're just the left-overs of the T14).  And some people say Y>HS>CCN>MVPB>CNDG.  But US News says Y>HSNColChiP>BMDVNCorGUcla (by tens), or Y>>HS>NCol>ChiP>BMDVN>CorGUcla (by fives).

In other words, you have to either put Harvard in the same band as Penn, or you have to divide the Columbia from Chicago (with Columbia in the top band).  But either way you go, you lose the idea of T14.

To actually create a group of YHS, you need an 11 point group which would make it YHS>NColChiP>BMDVNCorGUclaUscVT and you'd have Boalt and Michigan in the same group as USC and Texas.  How does that sound, the Boalt to USC band?

I'm a little confused by what you're saying here. Do you mean that our banding doesn't line up with USNWR because there's no way to numerically cut up the USNWR rankings in a way that bands things the way we do? Obviously, we have to start from the basic assumption that everything we say here is more true than anything else, and especially USNWR. But I think that our convention of HYS>CCN>MVPB>CNDG is pretty much just a reflection of the prestige within the legal community. I'm just trying to clarify what you're saying, whether it's numerically, or having to do with all the ties and the idiosyncracies of the rankings within the USNWR T14.