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Author Topic: Anyone going to Fordham for IP?  (Read 1024 times)

newjaytdot

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Anyone going to Fordham for IP?
« on: February 25, 2008, 05:18:23 PM »
I'm about 99% sure that I'm going to Fordham this fall, even though five of my applications are still pending (don't worry - I've withdrawn from all that I'm certain do not interest me).  Fordham appeals to me for a number of reasons (relatively small section size, location, huge array of course offerings), but I am most inclined to go to Fordham because I am interested in IP law.  In particular, I would like to practice in the copyright/trademark fields of IP. 

Is anyone else considering Fordham or choosing Fordham on the basis of their IP offerings?  Obviously this thread is open to all, but I would like to hear from those entering Fordham in the fall.  What are your interests and/or goals?

newjaytdot

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Re: Anyone going to Fordham for IP?
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2008, 10:12:02 PM »
I wish you the very best with your NYU application.  I've got my fingers crossed for you.

I'm interested in the entertainment industry, but I don't have a lot of connections.  On the other hand, I have many friends involved in the Art/Fashion scene.  Maybe that could lead somewhere... For now I am just very keen on studying and working my a$$ off.

At any rate, Fordham does have a top-notch IP curriculum.  If you decide on Fordham, I will be most happy to see you there!!

bruinbro

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Re: Anyone going to Fordham for IP?
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2008, 11:33:18 PM »
There's a very good possibility I'll be going to Fordham, and I am also interested in IP.  I have a strong music/acting background so I'm especially interested in entertainment law.  Fordham seems to have a very strong IP program: a IP-specific journal, tons of courses, etc.  Unless I get into NYU, I'm almost certain I'll be attending Fordham.

You would go to Fordham over Michigan?!?
In: Case Western ($$), IU-B ($$), USD ($$), Pitt ($$), Iowa, Wisconsin , George Mason ($), Loyola-LA ($$), UC-Davis, UIUC ($), American, Tulane ($$),GW
Out: Notre Dame,BC,WUSTL,Cornell,W&L

4RE

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Re: Anyone going to Fordham for IP?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2008, 04:55:57 AM »
There's a very good possibility I'll be going to Fordham, and I am also interested in IP.  I have a strong music/acting background so I'm especially interested in entertainment law.  Fordham seems to have a very strong IP program: a IP-specific journal, tons of courses, etc.  Unless I get into NYU, I'm almost certain I'll be attending Fordham.

You would go to Fordham over Michigan?!?

You can get a NYC Biglaw job at the median of Fordham's class just as you can at UMich's class.  If you want NYC, I don't see why it's a crazy idea, especially when one has money from Fordham.

whartonn

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Re: Anyone going to Fordham for IP?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2008, 09:10:10 AM »
There's a very good possibility I'll be going to Fordham, and I am also interested in IP.  I have a strong music/acting background so I'm especially interested in entertainment law.  Fordham seems to have a very strong IP program: a IP-specific journal, tons of courses, etc.  Unless I get into NYU, I'm almost certain I'll be attending Fordham.

You would go to Fordham over Michigan?!?

You can get a NYC Biglaw job at the median of Fordham's class just as you can at UMich's class.  If you want NYC, I don't see why it's a crazy idea, especially when one has money from Fordham.


Median at Fordham DOES NOT get BigLaw unless they are exceptional. In fact, those outside top 1/3 at Fordham have a rough time because the Fordham degree only has value in NY.

Finishing last in your class at Michigan will give you much better options that finishing middle of your class at Fordham.

newjaytdot

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Re: Anyone going to Fordham for IP?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2008, 11:06:32 AM »
PS. Sorry my situation hijacked the thread... I didnt mean for it to happen!  :-\

I completely understand.  My own two cents on the issue is that you should go wherever you feel is a better fit for you.  Law students, especially pre-law students, tend to treat the US World & News as though it was given on Mt. Sinai.  Michigan is a good school no doubt, but if you are intent on a NY life I don't think it is wrong to seriously consider Fordham over Michigan - especially given the fact that you have been offered money from Fordham. 

Choosing a school does not always boil down to choosing the top-ranked school.  Faculty, courses, alumni, location, programs, exchange opportunities, diversity of the student body, and financial concerns IMO matter to a greater extent than an index snapshot of a school provided by a profit-driven company (US World & News). 

whartonn

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Re: Anyone going to Fordham for IP?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2008, 11:42:30 AM »
PS. Sorry my situation hijacked the thread... I didnt mean for it to happen!  :-\

I completely understand.  My own two cents on the issue is that you should go wherever you feel is a better fit for you.  Law students, especially pre-law students, tend to treat the US World & News as though it was given on Mt. Sinai.  Michigan is a good school no doubt, but if you are intent on a NY life I don't think it is wrong to seriously consider Fordham over Michigan - especially given the fact that you have been offered money from Fordham. 

Choosing a school does not always boil down to choosing the top-ranked school.  Faculty, courses, alumni, location, programs, exchange opportunities, diversity of the student body, and financial concerns IMO matter to a greater extent than an index snapshot of a school provided by a profit-driven company (US World & News). 

It's not at all "wrong" to consider Fordham. Fordham is a good choice if you are unable to leave NY and you cannot get into NYU or Columbia. But Michigan dominates Fordham in all of the categories you have listed except for location. The two schools are not even close and it would be a huge mistake to go to Fordham over Michigan.

newjaytdot

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Re: Anyone going to Fordham for IP?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2008, 12:34:49 PM »
But Michigan dominates Fordham in all of the categories you have listed except for location. The two schools are not even close and it would be a huge mistake to go to Fordham over Michigan.

First of all, it's bad form to make such a sweeping claim without backing it up with evidence.

I'll start with faculty:

U Michigan - wins on three different citation-based scholarly impact indices
http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/2007faculty_impact.shtml

Courses:
# of course offerings after 1L @ U Michigan - 147
# of course offerings after 1L @ Fordham - 222
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/grad/webextras/brief/sb_law_size_brief.php

Alumni:
U Michigan has more top placement at 'elite' law firms (per Leiter methodology - a survey of 25 firms)
http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/index.shtml
I think a broader picture would be helpful as well; however, I cannot find data which incorporates a greater number of firms and clerkships.

Location:
Fordham is a winner for "NYC or bust", as well as almost anyone interested in a social life beyond beer pong.

Programs and exchange opportunities:
I'm at work now, so I don't have time to research these thoroughly.

Diversity:
U Michigan has a better index score
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/law/brief/lawdiv_brief.php

Financial concerns:
I'm assuming that student debt is a good indicator of how costly attending a certain institution is overall.
Average debt @ U Michigan - $90,700
Average debt @ Fordham - $90,082
NYC or bust has also received some sort of offer of money from Fordham.
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/grad/webextras/brief/sb_law_debt_brief.php

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just think that it is necessary to actually provide data which corroborates your claims.  It is apparent that Michigan does take the cake on most of those categories.  It was not, however, something which should have just been accepted as true because you said so. 

4RE

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Re: Anyone going to Fordham for IP?
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2008, 01:54:40 PM »
There's a very good possibility I'll be going to Fordham, and I am also interested in IP.  I have a strong music/acting background so I'm especially interested in entertainment law.  Fordham seems to have a very strong IP program: a IP-specific journal, tons of courses, etc.  Unless I get into NYU, I'm almost certain I'll be attending Fordham.

You would go to Fordham over Michigan?!?

You can get a NYC Biglaw job at the median of Fordham's class just as you can at UMich's class.  If you want NYC, I don't see why it's a crazy idea, especially when one has money from Fordham.


Median at Fordham DOES NOT get BigLaw unless they are exceptional. In fact, those outside top 1/3 at Fordham have a rough time because the Fordham degree only has value in NY.

Finishing last in your class at Michigan will give you much better options that finishing middle of your class at Fordham.

My post SPECIFICALLY stated NYC Biglaw.  And all the Fordham #Ls taking questions stated that it's very possible to land a Biglaw gig at median.  Difficult?  Yes.  Exceptional?  Seems a little too strong.

If I finished last in my class, I'd want to take Fordham with money over UMich without anything to minimize that debt.

whartonn

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Re: Anyone going to Fordham for IP?
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2008, 03:02:50 PM »
But Michigan dominates Fordham in all of the categories you have listed except for location. The two schools are not even close and it would be a huge mistake to go to Fordham over Michigan.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just think that it is necessary to actually provide data which corroborates your claims.  It is apparent that Michigan does take the cake on most of those categories.  It was not, however, something which should have just been accepted as true because you said so. 

Fair enough

Faculty Impact Ranking:
Michigan: 9
Fordham: 33
http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/2007faculty_impact.shtml

Courses:
# of course offerings after 1L @ U Michigan- 2.5 Per Student
# of course offerings after 1L @ Fordham- 2.1 Per Student
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/grad/webextras/brief/sb_law_size_brief.php

Placement: Percentage of Clerks in 2008-2009
Michigan: 5.5% (20 clerks total)
Fordham: 0.4% (2 clerks total) ---Fordham had the same number of clerks as Brooklyn Law

Placement: Percentage of class placement at V10 Firms
Michigan: 12.3%
Fordham: 4.1%

Placement: Percentage of class placement at V100 Firms
Michigan: 41.3%
Fordham: 15.3%

Programs and exchange opportunities:
Michigan: 14 dual degree programs. Great busines school and good school of economics.
Fordham: 2 dual degree programs. It's other schools are mediocre.

Diversity:
Michigan has a better index score and is more diverse
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/law/brief/lawdiv_brief.php

As the placement numbers indicate, Fordham is a feast or famine school. 4% of the class at Fordham is placing at V10 firms, but only 15% are placing inside the entire V100. 12% of the class at Michigan is placing at V10 firms and 41% are placing inside the entire V100. While Fordham is holding its own in ultra-elite V10 placement, it is getting exposed when you examine its lower level BigLaw placement. This re-enforces the idea that the very best at Fordham do really well while those outside the top 1/3 of the class struggle with BigLaw.

You would have to be totally blind not to see that Michigan and Fordham are not even close. Fordham is much, much closer to Cardozo than to Michigan. Fordham is a good law school, but Michigan is a top law school. Unless you have no choice but to remain in NY, passing up Michigan for Fordham would be the mistake of a lifetime.