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Author Topic: Mass Shootings  (Read 2969 times)

Principled.

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Mass Shootings
« on: February 16, 2008, 04:24:18 PM »
It certainly appears to be more prevalent in recent years (or mabye I'm just paying more attention to it).

Are we beginning to worry, more than usual, about this issue?  Should we be? Knowing that I'm returning to school this fall doesn't make me feel any safer. And it's sad when you feel more secure walking in Harlem at night than learning in a classroom.
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IamAnXman

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Re: Mass Shootings
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2008, 04:28:17 PM »
^ unknown, you still have a greater chance of something bad happening in harlem alone at night than in a classroom.

your fear is ridiculously unwarranted.

Principled.

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Re: Mass Shootings
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2008, 04:47:51 PM »
^ unknown, you still have a greater chance of something bad happening in harlem alone at night than in a classroom.

your fear is ridiculously unwarranted.

Ridiculous? Unwarranted? Further, ridiculously unwarranted?? All three are stretches as it pertains to concern about this issue. It certainly seems relevant. Institutions of higher learning could potentially be a hot bed for this kind of activity, where troubled persons and personalities may be more exposed than usual to competitiveness and pressure to achieve. That coupled with your everyday issues can set up a bit of caution zone for everyone else.

And I wouldn't say fear, but there is certainly some discomfort.

My reference to my neighborhood was an allusion to my familiarity with my surroundings and my ability to know, from experience, what to do and what not to do. There is no such "know how" to protect us (or at least reduce the chances) from these random acts of violence. I guess you would be alluding to the idea that these things can happen anywhere (or that because they are random there is no sense in being worried about it), but again I'm concerned about the prevalence of these at institutions...(and malls and churches and etc.)

I imagine that your position might be different if say, I was the victim of such random acts before or if this suddenly became common. I mention the latter because it's definitely a possibility. So addressing such concerns now are definitely worth something, if for no other reason, than awareness, which in itself, saves lives.
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steuby

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Re: Mass Shootings
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2008, 09:10:08 PM »


Ridiculous? Unwarranted? Further, ridiculously unwarranted?? All three are stretches as it pertains to concern about this issue.

I think that Xman's point was not that your positon is not irrational for being concerned about a potential danger in your class room - as you are in any public setting -, but that you are being irrational suggesting that your class room might be more dangerous than a traditional hotbed of crime.

School shootings make news not because of their frequency, but because of their infrequency.

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Re: Mass Shootings
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2008, 10:09:46 PM »


Ridiculous? Unwarranted? Further, ridiculously unwarranted?? All three are stretches as it pertains to concern about this issue.

I think that Xman's point was not that your positon is not irrational for being concerned about a potential danger in your class room - as you are in any public setting -, but that you are being irrational suggesting that your class room might be more dangerous than a traditional hotbed of crime.

School shootings make news not because of their frequency, but because of their infrequency.

I don't think it is at all irrational to feel that a setting in which I am more aware of my surroundings could potentially be safer for me, even given its history of violence, which in truth, was more often targeted than random and certainly not mass. Concentrated, yes, but not mass.

I want to be clear on my point: I'm not saying that Harlem is safter than a classroom. I'm saying that it is not unreasonable for me to feel uncomfortable in a setting in which I am less aware of my surroundings, especially an environment that has been targeted lately for random acts of mass violence.

And when it happens once, its one too many times. When it happens twice, that's two too many times, and it is cause for pause and to wonder if it will become a trend. I'm not concerned about the fact that its prevalence (or lack thereof as you claim) is being captured by the media. I'm concerned that it's happening in the first place. In any case, I don't think its a persuasive argument to say that its occurrence is infrequent as opposed to frequent which is why the news covers it. I'm not convinced that frequency is even relevant to the media in this case. the nature of the crime is certainly a determining factor too, if not the only.
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carnodel

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Re: Mass Shootings
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2008, 07:23:31 PM »
^ unknown, you still have a greater chance of something bad happening in harlem alone at night than in a classroom.

your fear is ridiculously unwarranted.

Agreed.  There is no statistically significant rise in school shootings or shootings in any formal organization than there have been in the past.  If anything, it has been decreasing.  The only difference is the fear and paranoia-induced environment that news agencies have taken to promote through their extremely biased and slanted reporting especially in the recent years with the fake "war on terror".  It should properly be called "War of Fear-Mongering". They tell you about these "horrific acts" and then tell you to be on your way like this is something that happens every day.  It doesn't happen every day.  It happens almost never.  Just when something like this is repeated over and over again on the "news" do you get this subconscious alteration of your schema on personal safety in public settings.


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Principled.

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Re: Mass Shootings
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2008, 07:54:58 PM »

Agreed.  There is no statistically significant rise in school shootings or shootings in any formal organization than there have been in the past.  If anything, it has been decreasing.   The only difference is the fear and paranoia-induced environment that news agencies have taken to promote through their extremely biased and slanted reporting especially in the recent years with the fake "war on terror".  It should properly be called "War of Fear-Mongering". They tell you about these "horrific acts" and then tell you to be on your way like this is something that happens every day.  It doesn't happen every day.  It happens almost never.  Just when something like this is repeated over and over again on the "news" do you get this subconscious alteration of your schema on personal safety in public settings.






I'd like to see some numbers on that. Otherwise, I'll disregard. And if it is true, are you saying it happened more often prior to, say, the last 5 yrs or so, and we hardly ever heard about it? And are you saying that we never heard about it because the media wasn't interested in "fear mongering?" Or because it was less important then? That doesn't make any sense.

And what exactly is biased about reporting on some troubled person shooting up a bunch of people? There is no way to downplay that. And it should certainly be discussed at length, even by the media, to at least serve as a deterrence....for those troubled ones to seek help...etc. etc.

It happens almost never now? Again, I'll reiterate...it's happening. That's the problem. Isn't it? Is it one of those problems that just not worth discussing because we aren't being shot at and being blown up everytime we step outside the door? If this is what it takes for you to start being concerned about it, that's unfortunate. And for all our sakes, I hope you never have to be concerned..NOT FEARFUL..just concerned.

"(s)he's arguing...(s)he's making an argument."

"...I'm so ready to promise my all & I'm so ready to give 'til the day that my life is no more... I'll be everything that this woman could possibly be...cause I'm ready to be like the olden days when commitment was golden" ~Chrisette Michele

Miss P

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Re: Mass Shootings
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2008, 08:50:40 PM »
A bit off topic: Harlem is pretty safe, and not a "hotbed of crime," as only Unbiased Observer has had the sense to point out.  jsia.

I'd also like to see some substantiation of carnodel's post.  School shootings in the U.S. are rare as compared to, say, car bomings in Iraq, yet they appear to be steadily on the rise.  There have been four in the last ten days, for instance.  I share the opinion that media coverage of violence is often sensational and uses up time that could be spent educating us about the subprime crisis or oil shortages or global warming or any number of other things that are more likely to touch our lives, but I don't think that makes school shootings any less real or important.
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carnodel

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Re: Mass Shootings
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2008, 02:26:26 AM »
First link after I typed this into Google: "School shooting statistics"

http://youthviolence.edschool.virginia.edu/violence-in-schools/school-shootings.html

I think I proved my point.  Pretty simple to see and find out for yourself - don't trust everything that you feel in your gut just because your gut normally goes with what is on the news - which is usually blown way out of proportion.

I rest my case.
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carnodel

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Re: Mass Shootings
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2008, 02:31:58 AM »
Oh, and to just rub it in a little more just so I don't get any snide retort:

Here's another one:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15111438/page/2/

Myth No. 10. “School violence is rampant.”

It may seem so, with media attention focused on a spate of school shootings. In fact, school shootings are extremely rare. Even including the more common violence that is gang-related or dispute-related, only 12 to 20 homicides a year occur in the 100,000 schools in the U.S. In general, school assaults and other violence have dropped by nearly half in the past decade.
All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, we're all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there's no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves.
- Bill Hicks