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hollowman988

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Re: Michigan OWND some high-numbers kids this year!
« Reply #130 on: February 23, 2008, 12:21:34 PM »
I'm not normally one to tell people that certain conversations are stupid or lame or whatever, but this thread has really got to end.
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JeNeSaisLaw

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Re: Michigan OWND some high-numbers kids this year!
« Reply #131 on: February 23, 2008, 02:19:22 PM »
I'm so ripped right now.  The bootleg MLaw shirt was very effective.  I have three dates tonight.

wtf it says you have 0 posts? How is that possible when I'm quoting you?
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Ender Wiggin

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Re: Michigan OWND some high-numbers kids this year!
« Reply #132 on: February 23, 2008, 02:45:52 PM »
I'm sorry to those of you who think all you need to do is send your name and LSAT to a top 10 school and they will worship you. The problem is not Michigan but all the schools that actually do worship the Numbers only fools that think they are entitled to everything. The reason you didn't get in is because you have little to offer beyond a score and that can easily come across in a poorly written essay or no essay at all (you don't write one b/c you have no clue how to sell youself beyond a score.

You continually insist that this is a numbers thing.  It is not.  No one in this thread has made the complaints you're railing against.  Either you have some sort of unhealthy obsession with people who do well, or you're trying to set up a straw man argument to support your viewpoint.

EVERY law school application includes at least two written components:  the personal statement (which is supposed to convey what each applicant has to offer) and the LSAT writing component (which is supposed to convey persuasive writing ability).  As I've repeatedly stated, there are a number of people who decline to write the "optional" "supplemental essays" for reasons other than those you so vilely ascribe to them.  Some people believe that their interesting personalities come across on their resume and personal statement, others don't want extra fluff distracting the adcomm from their outstanding letters of recommendation and lifetime achievements, still more simply believe that if the admissions committee thought the optional essays were useful then they would be required or at least encouraged.  This has nothing to do with people thinking Michigan should let them in because of their LSAT score.  It has nothing to do with that at all, so get off it.

The other critique I have of your last post is that you suggest Michigan does not contribute to the excessive weighting of LSAT scores.  This is patently false.  Michigan bases its admissions decisions very heavily on the LSAT.  They offer more adulation to high-LSAT scorers than is typical.  (E.g., they frequently send handwritten notes to high-scorers, something other schools don't usually do).  I agree with you that no one should feel entitled to anything because of a high LSAT score.  It's an achievement, sure, but it is just one test and just one factor.  Michigan contributes to LSAT worship as much as anyone, and their occassional arbitrary rejection of candidates does not have anything to do with it.

That's a silly argument.  She writes hand-written notes to EVERYONE!  If the most noteworthy thing for her to comment on is your LSAT score, that's what your comment is about.  It's got nothing to do with LSAT-worship.  My comment was about something completely different, and was not numbers-related. 

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Re: Michigan OWND some high-numbers kids this year!
« Reply #133 on: February 28, 2008, 01:13:19 PM »
That's a silly argument.  She writes hand-written notes to EVERYONE!  If the most noteworthy thing for her to comment on is your LSAT score, that's what your comment is about.  It's got nothing to do with LSAT-worship.  My comment was about something completely different, and was not numbers-related. 

You misunderstand:  I did not say she writes handwritten notes about LSAT scores.  She does not write handwritten notes to EVERYONE.  She writes a handwritten note to those who are given fee waivers.  They send fee waivers only to those with extremely high LSAT scores.  Even if the handwritten note is about your school or major, you are getting it because of your LSAT score.

Ender Wiggin

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Re: Michigan OWND some high-numbers kids this year!
« Reply #134 on: February 28, 2008, 01:15:35 PM »
That's a silly argument.  She writes hand-written notes to EVERYONE!  If the most noteworthy thing for her to comment on is your LSAT score, that's what your comment is about.  It's got nothing to do with LSAT-worship.  My comment was about something completely different, and was not numbers-related. 

You misunderstand:  I did not say she writes handwritten notes about LSAT scores.  She does not write handwritten notes to EVERYONE.  She writes a handwritten note to those who are given fee waivers.  They send fee waivers only to those with extremely high LSAT scores.  Even if the handwritten note is about your school or major, you are getting it because of your LSAT score.

That's not true either.  People with mid (and maybe even low?  Who knows?) 160's scores got fee waivers.

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Michigan Law Class of 2011

futurelawstudent2011

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Re: Michigan OWND some high-numbers kids this year!
« Reply #135 on: February 28, 2008, 01:38:44 PM »
That's a silly argument.  She writes hand-written notes to EVERYONE!  If the most noteworthy thing for her to comment on is your LSAT score, that's what your comment is about.  It's got nothing to do with LSAT-worship.  My comment was about something completely different, and was not numbers-related. 

You misunderstand:  I did not say she writes handwritten notes about LSAT scores.  She does not write handwritten notes to EVERYONE.  She writes a handwritten note to those who are given fee waivers.  They send fee waivers only to those with extremely high LSAT scores.  Even if the handwritten note is about your school or major, you are getting it because of your LSAT score.

I did not receive a fee waiver, but I did receive a nice handwritten note on my acceptance letter, and a letter encouraging me to apply. I also do not have what would be considered a high LSAT score by U Mich standards.

I suppose your next argument will be that I am the exception that proves the rule?  ::)
Accepted: Michigan, Northwestern, GULC, UCLA, Vanderbilt, WUSTL ($$$$), Boston University, Boston College ($$$), U Washington, William & Mary ($$), UC Hastings, Temple ($$$$) :)

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CLS2009Student

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Re: Michigan OWND some high-numbers kids this year!
« Reply #136 on: February 28, 2008, 01:45:50 PM »
I suppose your next argument will be that I am the exception that proves the rule?  ::)

No, you're not an exception at all.  I originally was referring to the school's practice of sending handwritten notes along with fee waivers to students with high LSAT scores.  You explained that you got a handwritten note on your acceptance letter.  That's not an exception.

Likewise, the fact that some people get fee waivers because of a very high GPA or diversity does not negate the fact that people with high LSAT scores are specifically targeted for them.  The fee waivers (and handwritten notes) aren't set out because of your outstanding character or creativity.  The only info they have is your LSAT, self-reported GPA, geographical area, undergraduate institution and major, and race/ethnicity.

It's really a tangential point.  I was simply trying to emphasize that UMich plays the LSAT game too.  I think UMich is a great school, and I really understand the pride that its fans have in it.  But it really is not as singular and magical as many of its fans make it out to be.

Ender Wiggin

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Re: Michigan OWND some high-numbers kids this year!
« Reply #137 on: February 28, 2008, 02:57:42 PM »
I suppose your next argument will be that I am the exception that proves the rule?  ::)

No, you're not an exception at all.  I originally was referring to the school's practice of sending handwritten notes along with fee waivers to students with high LSAT scores.  You explained that you got a handwritten note on your acceptance letter.  That's not an exception.

Likewise, the fact that some people get fee waivers because of a very high GPA or diversity does not negate the fact that people with high LSAT scores are specifically targeted for them.  The fee waivers (and handwritten notes) aren't set out because of your outstanding character or creativity.  The only info they have is your LSAT, self-reported GPA, geographical area, undergraduate institution and major, and race/ethnicity.

It's really a tangential point.  I was simply trying to emphasize that UMich plays the LSAT game too.  I think UMich is a great school, and I really understand the pride that its fans have in it.  But it really is not as singular and magical as many of its fans make it out to be.

Don't most schools base their fee waivers on mostly numbers?  Michigan also gave a bunch of fee waivers to people who inquired about them.  I would think that the specific interest in Michigan was at least one strong factor in whether those requests were granted.  Of course Michigan is not Xanadu (Xanadu wishes it were that cool), but it is certainly closer to the way it is portrayed by its supporters than you are making it out to be.

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Re: Michigan OWND some high-numbers kids this year!
« Reply #138 on: February 28, 2008, 03:09:28 PM »
Don't most schools base their fee waivers on mostly numbers?  Michigan also gave a bunch of fee waivers to people who inquired about them.  I would think that the specific interest in Michigan was at least one strong factor in whether those requests were granted.  Of course Michigan is not Xanadu (Xanadu wishes it were that cool), but it is certainly closer to the way it is portrayed by its supporters than you are making it out to be.

Yes, most schools base their fee waivers mostly on numbers.  All I'm saying is that Michigan gives just as much attention to the LSAT as any other school.  After all, you don't get a student body with an average LSAT near the 90th percentile without seriously trying to.

I don't know what you think I'm portraying Michigan to be.  I haven't said anything bad about it at all.  In fact, I think it is a great school.  I know people who went there and love it.  All I have tried to convey is that it is, as you say, no Xanadu.  Michigan trolls like to pretend that the LSAT doesn't matter there.  That's not true.  UMich looks closely at LSAT scores, although they make it a point to reject applicants who have high LSAT/GPA combinations but don't complete the optional essays. 

That doesn't make them this magical place where all the students are so much more interesting and creative than elsewhere.  All other schools look beyond the LSAT too, some much more so than Michigan.  Michigan is a great school--just like a lot of other places.

OnTheRoad

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Re: Michigan OWND some high-numbers kids this year!
« Reply #139 on: February 28, 2008, 03:18:30 PM »
Don't most schools base their fee waivers on mostly numbers?  Michigan also gave a bunch of fee waivers to people who inquired about them.  I would think that the specific interest in Michigan was at least one strong factor in whether those requests were granted.  Of course Michigan is not Xanadu (Xanadu wishes it were that cool), but it is certainly closer to the way it is portrayed by its supporters than you are making it out to be.

Yes, most schools base their fee waivers mostly on numbers.  I'll I'm saying is that Michigan gives just as much attention to the LSAT as any other school.  After all, you don't get a student body with an average LSAT near the 90th percentile without seriously trying to.

I don't know what you think I'm portraying Michigan to be.  I haven't said anything bad about it at all.  In fact, I think it is a great school.  I know people who went there and love it.  All I have tried to convey is that it is, as you say, no Xanadu.  Michigan trolls like to pretend that the LSAT doesn't matter there.  That's not true.  UMich looks closely at LSAT scores, although they make it a point to reject applicants who have high LSAT/GPA combinations but don't complete the optional essays. 

That doesn't make them this magical place where all the students are so much more interesting and creative than elsewhere.  All other schools look beyond the LSAT, some much more so than Michigan.  Michigan is a great school--just like a lot of other places.

Could we please sticky this post on the front page and at the top of every board and sub-board on here?