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Author Topic: REJECTED, ETC. TODAY  (Read 221145 times)

kabootar

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Re: REJECTED, ETC. TODAY
« Reply #1000 on: January 29, 2013, 02:44:23 AM »
Rejection Pie. YUMMY

CA Law Dean

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Re: REJECTED, ETC. TODAY
« Reply #1001 on: April 06, 2013, 02:40:20 PM »
It is interesting to look back over previous years posts on "Rejections". There is no question that the 2013-2014 cycle is turning out to be quite unique. OK, I admit to being a "data stalker" on lawschoolnumbers.com. Hey . . . we all have our issues. So far this cycle, if you have any portability at all, there is no "bottom" cut off on admissions for 2013. If you have your heart set on attending an ABA law school . . . and you have the resources to pay for it . . . there is a school this year somewhere for you.

I have never seen so many sub-2.5 UGPA and sub-150 LSAT scores direct-admitted to law schools before. That said . . . is this a good thing? I know you think I am about to whine about low academic standards, etc . . . but that is not my concern. What I hate to see are law schools skimming (scamming) a year of tuition (up to $50K) from law students who have no realistic chance for academic success . . . wait for the down beat . . . WITHOUT APPROPRIATE ACADEMIC SUPPORT.

It isn't that I think high risk (from UGPA/LSAT formulas) students cannot be successful in law school. However, I am CERTAIN that they cannot be successful without the school's commitment to identify at-risk students early-on and provide hands-on academic support. I do not fault law schools who are facing reduced applications for responding to market forces and opening their doors to a broader range of students. (Our school has statistics that show how poor of a predictor that the LSAT can be on ultimate law school and bar exam success.) However, with that change should also come an equal commitment to address the academic support needs of these students.

If you are an applicant who was rejected this cycle because you got caught up in the "how high in the rankings can I go syndrome" . . . there is still time for Fall 2013 to redial your strategy (particularly if you are a California applicant, or someone who envisions practicing in California) and look at one of the California accredited law schools. These schools are smaller, have hands-on, one-on-one academic support, cost 1/2 to 1/3 of tuition, and have very respectable completion and bar pass rates for good students. These schools are NOT for everyone. If you have your heart set on BigLaw and BigCity . . . not so much. But if you see yourself practicing in California as a small firm lawyer, DA, Public Defender, legal services, or non-profit lawyer . . . check out one of the 17 California accredited law schools before you check out of your dream to be a lawyer.

(for additional info on one of the CBE schools, see Monterey College of Law under "M" in the discussion boards)
Monterey College of Law
www.montereylaw.edu

CA Law Dean

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Re: REJECTED, ETC. TODAY
« Reply #1002 on: February 05, 2014, 05:52:39 PM »
It looks like this will be a very good year for potential law students. With fewer potential law students taking the LSAT and lower number of applications nationally . . . it should be a "buyers" market. However, that does NOT mean that everyone will get accepted into the law schools that they initially choose. Soooo . . . what are you going to do if you get rejected from your first list of law schools? Do you have a plan B? As dean of Monterey College of Law, I would hope that you at least consider whether you might be a good fit at one of the California-accredited law schools (CALS). As small regional law schools accredited by the State Bar of California, CALS offer small classes, lower cost, and high employment results. This is because there ARE lawyer jobs available in the small non-urban communities of California such as Monterey, Santa Cruz, and Salinas. I would be glad to answer any questions you might have. AND we will take applications through JUNE, so there is still time to make us your "Plan B" law school if you are determined to be a lawyer.
Monterey College of Law
www.montereylaw.edu

Citylaw

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Re: REJECTED, ETC. TODAY
« Reply #1003 on: February 06, 2014, 01:19:26 AM »
Glad to see you back on this board CA Law Dean.

I think MCSL or any CBA school can be a great choice for the right person. However, you need to go in with realistic expectations and understanding.

Do not expect Cravath to recruit you out of MCSL, CBA school, or even 75% of ABA schools.

However, if you want to be a solo, possibly a public defender, small firm, rural area, etc a license to practice law can open doors in a lot of areas and MCSL can get you a bar exam ticket, but whether you pass that exam and what you do with your law license will have a lot more to do with you than the name on your diploma.


CA Law Dean

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Re: REJECTED, ETC. TODAY
« Reply #1004 on: February 06, 2014, 05:04:48 PM »
I fully agree with Citylaw. The problem is not that there are not enough lawyer jobs to meet the new graduate demands . . . the challenge is that there are not enough lawyer jobs that pay enough to service the level of debt required to attend many of the large urban ABA law schools. If a new applicant hasn't spent time on Law School Transparency (www.lawschooltransparency.com) to better understand the economics of a law degree . . . they should do so before accepting any law school offer.

I can only speak to California, but there are many non-urban communities that NEED new, young lawyers . . . right now. Of course, small-community lawyers start out at $50-60K, not $120-160K that is theoretically available in BigLaw. Therefore, if someone enjoys the idea of living, working, and raising a family outside of an urban center . . . look for a law school that successfully channels their graduates into those markets.

At least in California, many of the non-ABA, state-accredited law schools such as Monterey College of Law will provide that opportunity.
Monterey College of Law
www.montereylaw.edu

CA Law Dean

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Re: REJECTED, ETC. TODAY
« Reply #1005 on: February 20, 2014, 10:49:30 AM »
REJECTION! Not fun. Actually downright depressing. However, for law school applicants in California (and anyone else who intends to live and practice in California at least 3-5 years after law school graduation), there may still be an alternative.

Consider a California-Accredited Law School
Consider one of the 17 California accredited law schools (such as Monterey College of Law). The State Bar of California, not the ABA, accredits these regional schools. Many of them have very respectable bar pass rates (competitive with the unranked ABA law schools), are a fraction of the cost of the traditional ABA schools, and offer part-time programs so that you can actually begin working in law related jobs to gain relevant experience before graduating.

Strong Ties to the Local Bench and Bar = Jobs!
Most have strong ties to the local bench-bar that result in jobs after graduation. Of course this is not the path if your goal is to work in a large urban center in a multinational law conglomerate. But if the idea of being a small firm lawyer, DA, Public Defender, Legal Services lawyer, or solo practitioner is what you are after . . . select one of the California accredited law schools in an area that you might like to live/practice and get an application in . . . right away. Then go visit to see if it fits your goals. Ask hard questions about bar pass rates, costs, job placement, clinical, programs, etc. Most of the non-urban areas of California need lawyers (despite the articles in the national news) and many of them are great places to live and raise a family if you have not already decided to be a big city lawyer.

Practicing Law in California
The biggest limitation is that upon graduation from one of the California accredited law schools you must take (and pass) the California bar exam first. You cannot go directly to another state and sit for their bar exam until you are licensed in California (and some states will require minimum years of practice as well). That is why the option is primarily for those who already know that they want to live and practice in California.

Bottom line, if you really want to be a lawyer, make it happen . . . and a California-accredited law school may be just the place for you.
Monterey College of Law
www.montereylaw.edu

Citylaw

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Re: REJECTED, ETC. TODAY
« Reply #1006 on: February 21, 2014, 12:49:29 AM »
Well written post I think Monterey College of Law http://www.montereylaw.edu/ can work for the right student, but as CA Law Dean says do not expect Cravath to come recruit you and offer you $160,000k out of law school. If law students have realistic expectations it can be a great career.

CA Law Dean

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Re: REJECTED, ETC. TODAY
« Reply #1007 on: March 06, 2014, 09:31:08 AM »
I frequently hear the question "If I get rejected by my top choice law school, should I just take a gap year and reapply next cycle?" Like many legal questions, the answer is "it depends."

First question. Do you have a realistic chance of meeting he statistical LSAT/UGPA admission standard of the dream school(s) where you have applied? There are quite a few excellent websites that provide free access to analytics that allow you to plug in your LSAT/UGPA and get a multi-school report on your statistical chance of falling within the admitted student range of targeted schools. Doing this analysis is a must. The odds are that if you were rejected by a school, you fell below the 25th percentile of their range.

Therefore, the question is, if you took off a year what would you do to improve your chances next cycle? I hate to sound crass, but curing cancer or solving world peace probably won't help you. You also can't change your UGPA. Therefore, the only variable you control is your LSAT score. Even if your UGPA is below standard, many schools will admit "splitters" . . . applicants with a below median UGPA, offset by a high LSAT.

Second question. "Do you have the time, resources, and testing skills to do what it takes to significantly improve your LSAT score?" Top tutorial programs can cost upwards of $10-12,000. Credible commercial review programs can cost $1,200 - $2,500. To significantly move your LSAT score 10+ points, you should expect to spend several hundred hours of dedicated effort. Add all of this to the "opportunity cost" of waiting another year to enter law school . . . and the career market upon completion . . . and you have the objective information necessary to realistically evaluate whether a gap year will be beneficial.

Of course, there are certainly other reasons that could play a role as well. Maturity, financial situation, family issues, undergraduate burn-out, etc. However, these go to the question of 1L readiness, not dream school admissions.

One final consideration. In the current competitive admissions climate, high LSAT scores can directly translate into significant scholarship offers. The trade-off is that higher ranked "dream" schools generally offer fewer scholarships, and fewer still to "splitters". Your best scholarship offers are likely to come from lower tier law schools . . . but that is a completely different topic.

So my recommendation is that if you are willing to use a gap year to improve your law school choices . . . do it. Otherwise, if you are "all dressed up and ready to go", select a law school that otherwise matches your interests and career goals . . . and get started.
Monterey College of Law
www.montereylaw.edu

heiressroxy

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Re: REJECTED, ETC. TODAY
« Reply #1008 on: April 09, 2014, 03:19:22 PM »
I am unhappy after I received a rejection letter today from I.U.  I am no spring chicken and my oldest will be 22 years of age; I decided to go back to my first love, law school.  I submitted every thing early, I took the LSAT only to find out today, I was not accepted.

Rejection does not feel good, no matter how old you are, especially when you are up in age.  I applied to one school for the convenience, since I am a divorcee with children. 

I am not sure about online Law Schools.  I will start from the drawing board and complete a few more apps.

Any thoughts?  I wonder how the young people handle rejection letters.

Thanks for a place to vent.

CA Law Dean

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Re: REJECTED, ETC. TODAY
« Reply #1009 on: April 15, 2014, 09:49:51 AM »
I am sorry to hear that you were rejected from your law school choice. It is always disappointing, regardless of age and experience. If you will share your LSAT/UGPA, I can probably give you a better idea of what influenced the decision. Despite the applicant friendly admissions cycle this year, it still requires understanding the criteria of the target school to better judge your application prospects. In your case, despite having college grades that are likely several decades old (assuming college was prior to the birth of your 22 year old child), the formula of LSAT/UGPA still overshadows any work-life experience for traditional law schools. When you said "I.U" did you mean Indiana University, and if yes, was it Bloomington or Indianapolis?
Monterey College of Law
www.montereylaw.edu